782D Cub#1 Power Steering Upgrade
 

Though about posting this project since did not see many posts with details of 782D conversion. The gas 782 conversion did not have the tight space with the flex disc joint next to the manual PS box.

Have two 782D. Cub#1 was purchased in 2006 with about 1000 hours and is used for mowing. When my wife uses this Cub, she has a hard time with steering. Agree the PS box needs to be rebuild again but with her bad shoulder going the PS route is the way to go.

I am using a JD 318 PS pump, Cub cylinder and proper GT new bracket from Messick.

The diesel cubs have very limited amount of space to work with.

Spent many hours where to position the pump. Original was wanting to install the pump behind the dual hydraulic spool valve. Was concern about interference with the battery box.

Next location was using manual box mount cross bracket. With PS pump in this location clearing both the flex disc joint and drive line, the pump is hanging halve way below the bottom of the frame. Was concern with hydraulic lines near PTO belts and lift assemble. The 50C Mower is currently on cub#2 so with the deck blocked all the way up against the frame there was still no interference with the pump valve.

I still did not like the hydraulic lines being so exposed. If it was not for the flex disc joint, could mount PS pump so the bottom of the pump was level with frame.

The solution is replace the flex disc joints with the ‘barrel’ joint couplers used on 2000/3000 cubs.

Enough said for opening first post. Attach photos with flex disc joint.


Bob G.

Used Cub#2 with mower to take measurements and check clearance.

Decided to do 2000/3000 driveline upgrade to gain additional clearance. Already had a #3093 driveline on hand. Originally plan to install in Cub 2 since this tractor mostly does pulling. Cut the end of the 3000 driveline and turn off the weld with the lathe. The ID of this driveline is 5/8” which the flex disc joint 5/8” OD driveLine perfectly slips into.

By the way, most of this information is not originally my ideas but a consolidation of other work. Will go back later and give credit to those who contributed.

To do the 2000/3000 driveline upgrade, I ordered from ‘Parts by Jeff’ in PA his CV adapter kit. Should have everything by end of next week. In meantime was able to mockup the drive line in order fab the ps pump mount bracket.

Now knowing where ps pump will be locate, can extend the steering column since the JD 318 column is only about 12”. Replace the steering shaft bushing with a piece of tubing to splice new tubing to column. Used 8 3/4” length of McMaster-Carr #776T171 1-1/2” OD, 0.049” wall, low-carbon steel round tubing. Found that exhaust tubing being slightly smaller OD. The JD 318 column OD measured 1.510”.

I have 3 conversions to PS.
a 1650. and 2, 782''s
The 1650 and 1 782, utilize the Deere power steering pump because they are less $$ usually,and more plentiful.
The udder 782, is a robbery from a super tractor, hanging under the tractor on a factory PS bracket ( I purchased it that way)
All work well and a nice addition, especially in my later years.
I set my 2 pumps on the original manual cross bracket about 3" higher that the manual steering box.
The pump/bracket is close to the drive shaft, but I don't have a problem as it clears by nearly 1/4"
Have fun, the wife will be happy when she is mowing and y'all are sittin' in da shade drinkin' barley pop,an watchin'. :biggrin2:

Thank George!

You were the person to give me the idea to look for the JD 318 pump. When you mounting 3” above manual steering box, was that a diesel Cub? At least on the 782D the engine rag joint sits right next to the steering box.

No Diesel, M18 Kroller :biggrin2:

There’s your dinner.

2000 series drive shafts don't work with the diesels. The rubber engine mounts allow to much movement and the blue plastic barrels fail. Go all CV for your drive shaft.

I assume this is about the fun of seeing if you can make this work. 1782's are easy to find under 2000 and have the power steering already there. I see one in east waterford pa on FBM for 1800 in very nice condition with a 60" deck. My 2182 is more thirsty but its dead even running cost when I factor the price of pump diesel over gas - unless your using off road diesel.
I dont know or endorse the seller and i dont know where in virginia you live in relation to PA.

Matt G is running the rubber barrel drive on one of his diesels with no issues so far. I’d like to try that setup too someday on one of mine but I don’t have the time anymore, maybe someday. CV is the way to go but I’ve never had an issue with the rag joint system yet.

Well Sam guess we will see how this works out. This Cub is my mowing GT. My other Cub does a lot of pulling things. The engine motor rubber mounts are still original and probably stiffer than when it was new. Wonder if others having problems the poly barrel driveline had replace their mounts with non OEM?

On this Cub, the driveline was shot. Ten years ago replaced the complete driveline with a used one from a gas 782. Shorten the shaft and replace the rubber disc with new. At the time the ball bushing seem OK but learn it should always be replace. Believe this is the root of the rag joint vibration issue. Did a complete repair on my other Cub 2 three years ago and it still runs smooth as silk.

With Jeff’s adapter kit, I could always switch to CV driveline if need to. What best model CV driveline to look for? May do this on Cub2 the next go around. Plan to go with spline shaft.

Thanks To Matt G. for the idea. Not sure if he did this mod on his plow tractor.

Appreciate all the comments...

Bob G.

Finish extending the JD 318 steering column shaft with a 14” length of 3/4” ID mechanical tubing. There was a 0.004 interference fit so bore out each end 3” with 3/4 drill bit. The 1/4” drilled holes are used to plug weld the shaft to the tubing.

Working on finishing up the steering pump bracket. Jeff sent an email that adapter kit is in the mail.

Decided to go ahead and replace all the o-rings in the pump to do this once. Best price found was at Messick for $60. Personally most O-ring kits are rip off on cost but guess OK for convenience.

Most common problem is the shaft seal leaking and filling the column with oil. You just need replace this seal without disassembling the stack.

Believe some one mention the original o-ring has been upgraded to a quad ring. Will see. Will note the size and McMaster#.

This is my note...
Seal Kit Cub $114 JD $83 Messicks $56
JOhn Deere# AM107078 Parker part # SK000097
Messicks O-Ring Kit, Part# 21-SK000011 (Steiner) for Parker HGF pump/valve
Messicks Spring Kit, Part # 21-401443X1 (Steiner) for Parker HGF pump/valve

Also thinking about repainting the frame since engine is out.

I can see some yawning with all detail but want help others who may feel timid doing this type of project. It also shows what can be done with having the tooling. Only if I had a vertical mill and an AC/DC TIG welder I would be set... lol

Was surprised today to see my package from Messick on the porch this morning. I only placed the order 18 hours ago. Was shipped via FedEx.

The order was for the Parker HGF PS pump/valve oring seal kit, the RTV500 upper radiator hose and two spray cans of Kubota ‘Blue’ paint for the engine.

Resealed the HGF today - destack the body one level at a time. Aware of springs popping out. Did not disassemble the metering valve assembly since did not see any signs of abnormal wear.

Did found the steering shaft face seal having some wear. The face seal is not some standard item. Substitute a quad ring may work in a pinch- no guarantee though. All the sealing rings in the stack are flat/squared rubber rings.

Assembling was going well until the last plate with the 3x 3/4” springs. One spring popped out three times. Used oring pick to hold spring in place while lowering the plate down on the stack then slowly easy pick out with slight pressure on the plate.

Need to pay attention when reinstalling the valve plate. Valve plate needs to be correctly orientated to the port connections.

I might add if the 4 stack up thru bolts are loosened or removed, on a non leaking unit that has been in service, the unit will leak if all the "O" rings are not replaced, as the mating has been disturbed.
Deere, also most times stocks the "Jesus" springs for reasons I don't need to explain.
Also when fumbling with them if they don't have a natural curve to them laterally, put one in them, in other words they are best not flat, but humped up like a willy worm if let lie on a table.
that causes them to remain in place as you stack the assembly without them flying to places unknown.
-----Beats the shit out of fumbling with 5 hands and several sets of feeler gauges trying to hold them in place during assembly. :beerchug:
I thought I'd tell you this AFTER you had your education dealing with them :biggrin2:

Good job. I didn't have any springs fly when I did mine but on the next one I do I will order the spring kit.
https://www.messicks.com/part/21-401443x1/spring-a

Thanks George and Oak,

After loosen the stack several times, though it be good idea to reseal it. Kept my hands wrapped around the stack while separating the plates. Did not have any surprises.

If I had problems with all three spring, was going to use a putty knife to hold while lowering the plate.

After deciding on using JD 318 valve, this was a good link I found to reference.

https://www.mytractorforum.com/threa...n-pics.208848/

Parker instruction not clear on the check ball location under the port plate. I had it in the Aux port yesterday. Been bothering me last night since I did not get photo. Refer the above link and yup wrong location.
Was wondering what piece of metal sticking out in the Aux port passageway.

Bob G.

Was pleasantly surprise this Sunday afternoon with email from USPS that Jeff’s CV adapter kit was delivered to our mailbox. Walked out and sure enough there it was. Was waiting for these parts to do the final mockup before finish stripping frame to paint it.

Installed the adapter on the engine crank pulley and the hydro input shaft.

The later Sundstrand hydros used what size spline input shaft?

Cut the driveshaft for the final fit. Slide the previous cut coupler on shaft and temporary install with eight 1/4-20 x 1-1/4” Grade 5 bolt.

Any one know is the proper hardware used for these coupler? I am thinking Grade 8 1-1/2” bolts. May have trim 1/4” off one or two bolts on the front adapter. Will lock-tite on threads on final install.

The adapter plate on the Kubota engine was a little closer to steering valve (3/32”) than I planned. On steering valve cross mount bracket, the weld is broken on the left side of frame - believe this is a common problem. Going to remove stamped out wedge from the cross bracket which will increase the clearance.

Also got the fan space from Jeff. Looking at proper mounting of the ten blade fan.

The fan and support bolt to the CV joint "over" the driveshaft.

From left to right, driveshaft, fan with support, CV joint, my pump adapter, pump.

The CV joints come with SHCS ( socket head cap screws). I have them in 1-3/4" and 2" lengths.

Also, if you need the OD of the engine adapter turned smaller, I can do that for the cost of return postage. You may need to grind a "flat" on each flat head screw and make sure they go back into the small hole you marked them for the flat.

If your pump is too close to the drive shaft you can offset it, as the steering shaft does not have to be straight/vertically to work.
All 3 of mine are offset to clear the driveshaft and are not noticeable during operation whatsoever.:beerchug:

Thank you for the feed back.

Jeff Attach photo of fan installed hydro, your adapter, fan spacer, fan. Used spacer to gain little clearance with hydro oil filter. Assume spacer goes inside fan to center fan on shaft.

George - Ok with clearance between driveline and steering column. The engine adapter was little larger diameter and thicker. Could grind the top corner of the steering valve. But going to flatten out the “stamped wedge” in the steering cross mount bracket. Column already offset.

Check the drive component alignment. Both hydro and engine at same angle with drive line inclination of 1 degree.

I used Messick web site to look at drive line part for Cub 1641, 2182 and 2130.

All the hard work is basically is done now. Do not see any problems with doing hydraulic tubing. Just need to finish recondition the rest of the tractor.

Will continue post as progress is made.

You put the fan plate on the wrong side. It goes on the inside of the fan.

Thanks Sam,

That is what I figure. Was wondering about the fan having four 5/16-3/8" holes. I see with the CV boot, it looks it has four spacer to align the fan which 1/4" bolts go through.

With the barrel joint, the fan lightly brushes the end of the oil filter. Thinking about making a spacer out of 3/8" AL using Jeff's spacer as a template. Turn a small shoulder to center the fan.

When I do my Cub#2 with a CV driveline, What is the OD of the CV coupler's?

OD is the same as the pump adapter you bought from Jeff.

Sorry guys not posting any updates.

Side tracked with other projects. Plan to strip down / paint the frame first.

Hope to be back on track in a few weeks.

Bob G.

Sam What is the thickness of the front CV coupler?

Know this is off subject. Still working on building a new deck.
Framing almost done but need to get composite deck boards. Did not realize all the mfg / different grades. Trex was first thing that came to me. Was made in Winchester VIrginia. Also looking at TimberTech, Wolf and Fiberon.

Deck gets 6 hours of full sun exposure. Leaning towards Fiberon. What has been others experience with composites?

Bob G.

I don't know, ask Jeff.

My experience with Trex, I would not use again. PM me for if you wish more information.

Look at YouTube. Pay attention to support spacing, joist tops being in same plane, expansion in direct sun, temperature with bare feet, surface hardness to limit scratches.

Rip it out and use concrete! No more wood or composite for me.:biggrin2:

Well sorry not getting in touch but I had been blind sided this summer with the deck project (my wifes). I assist a family friend with this project - he is old school. He did all the framing/decking.

Well I went off on another project (for personal satisfaction).

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...al-5396.78622/

I will be getting back to the Cub PS project soon.


Bob G.
Madison, VA