682 Relief Valve Issue/Pump Issue?
 

Hello everyone. I know this seems redundant, but please read it all. I can't find any answer to this issue. I'll tell you a little backstory on it first.
I bought this new to me 682 two years ago cause I always wanted one. It was all original and running when I bought it, but had a built in mosquito repellant. It came with the mowing deck and snowthrower. My first project was to create a boat anchor out of the Kohler, out of life engine that was in it. I had a lightly used Honda GX620 laying around I bought at an auction a while ago to put on the feed cart, but never did. I put the Honda in it with some modifications right away. I opened the rear end and cleaned out the gunk from the hytran, flushed, refilled with hytran, and installed a new WIX 51410 filter. Mowed and cleaned out the driveway with it with no issues until last fall. The left side relief valve started to leak. I read a lot about the o-rings going bad, so i decided I would rebuild them. That worked great.... for about a month. So I broke down and bought new ones figuring I must have goofed something up. Good for a week with the new ones, but then again, the left side started to weep. I thought no way, but I guess it's possible I have a bad one. I swapped them side for side, and right away the one that was on the right started to leak when put on the left side, and the one from the left installed on the right was dry. Well winter came, and I got busy with other projects and plowing so I just used it as it was, and just made sure to check the oil level before I used it. It worked with just the left side weeping a little until I went to use it last. I went to pull out of the shop to clean up the last dump of snow, and there was a pretty good trail following me. Back into the shop, and I found both valves had oil coming out of them pretty steady. My thoughts were there must not be enough pressure to push the valves all the way open, but enough to make the tractor go. Maybe I have a plugged filter, and didn't get enough of the gunk out when I flushed the rear end, and it's now all in the filter. So I took the filter off, and there was hardly any oil in it, and it looked clean. I thought I've seen plugged fuel filters that looked decent yet, so on a new filter went. The oil level was topped back off, started it up, and no difference. Still leaking badly from both valves. Now I'm wondering is the pump shot, is there something in there that could restrict flow, or is it getting air somewhere. The oil wasn't foamy, so I'm not thinking its sucking air. Hytrans doesn't really foam, but I've had issues with some of the farm tractors with a broken pickup tube that made good oil look like it was full of water and foamy. Is there a pickup tube in the rear end of this tractor, and how hard is it to get to? I think I remember seeing one toward the front when I had the back cover off, but maybe it's a return line? If you've made it this far first of all thank you for reading my novel, but I like as much info as possible, so I figured I'd give it to start. Second, any ideas or experience with this type of issue? Any kind of help will be great! It's finally starting to green up good around here!

First, welcome to OCC....... :Welcome2:

YES....there is. Item #36 in the attached Image.

Thanks for the welcome R Bedell. #36 in the picture looks like it will be the pickup. It also looks like it's on the outside correct?

Yup, right under the Hydro Filter.

Thanks for the info. I'll start there.

I would guess your charge pump relief valve is stuck allowing to high a pressure at the check valves. Down load the manual and it will explain how to check better than I can. As far as the almost empty filter I don't think it has a drainback valve and the filter sits mostly above the oil level so a lot of the oil will drain back when the tractors not running.

Could you point me in the direction of the correct manual, or the name of it? I've downloaded a couple and can't find anything about the relief valve.

It is in the Technical Library Section..... Manual

I looked at the 82 series manual and it shows the charge pump relief on page 3-37 and says to go to page 2-94 for instructions on checking pressure but there is no page 2-94, section 2 ends at 2-65 I think. You could try the Quietline manual, the procedure should be the same.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/c...ervice+Man.pdf

Go to page 2-92 for pressure check

I looked at the manual and found the right stuff. I just got to get an adapter and 1/8" pipe fitting to check it. I don't think I have anything that small laying around here. Thanks for the help guys. I'll post what I find out. I'm going to mow with the Gravely today to get everything that isn't too soggy yet cleaned up a bit. It supposed to be rainy all week again, so I should get some time to putz with it.

This will take care of your leaking relief valves.
Ebay # 320670405175.

And it is common for the old worn/hard "O" rings, to leak more in the winter
than summer.
Since you can't rebuild the valves without dissembling them, and that is not doable without cutting them apart I wonder how you did it as you say?
Possibly you just replaced the outer "O" rings, not the little inner ones.

The charge pump runs @ a max of less than #1000 on a ported pump
usually #500 or so for a non ported pump.
The implement lift requires a higher pressures on a ported pump.

George he stated that he bought new valves after he rebuilt his and the new ones also leaked. Need to check the pressure yes?

I saw that, thought he only bought 1,
but I've BTDT,& had a new one I bought leak in less than 12 mo.
A fluke I guess.
I put in a used one I had, and all was well, and still is.:bigthink:
Looking Back, I think I didn't say the magic word like Groucho used to say.:biggrin2:
Aww well, way before your time Ha,LOL.

Ol George, to answer your questions, I did remove and rebuild both valves. I have a bench top wood lathe I picked up at an auction that I put a jaw head on from a junk milling machine. It's crude but works good for polishing shafts and such. I read a thing on here about doing it yourself with a metal lathe, so I thought I'd try mine with a file instead, and it worked. That didn't fix the problem, so I figured I goofed them up somehow. Apparently not though because the two new ones I bought from HB didn't do the trick either. I'll get to the bottom of it yet.

It figures--- I read this thread and sure enough the same thing happens to my 682 tonight while mowing grass. Hytran oozing out of the little hole on one of the valves. What causes this to happen, Is it just the valve needing attention or is there something else that causes it?

Age, wear and tear. Seals harden, dry out and
lose the elasticity. Very common problem. However OP's problem with high pressure, if true, is not common. We are still waiting to hear the results.

Sorry for not getting back with results. Been a cool wet spring so far, so we been trying to get anything we can done before we get more rain tomorrow and Thursday, and again this weekend. If I can't get to it this week I'll for sure find time this weekend. Part of the reason I love this thing is I can keep the ditches mowed even if they're still a little wet. My Gravely just spins out and makes a mess. They are getting tall already, so I need to get my but in gear!

Tom D, I know a lot of people have issues with their check valves leaking, and I don't want you to follow this thread thinking this will be your issue. Follow along and by all means chime in if I'm missing something, but I'm pretty sure you're lucky and just have a tired valve. As much as I've looked around, I believe this is at least for now specific to my machine. Plenty of used rebuilt and new ones around. Very simple repair, and I'd start there if I were you. I do know a few have said you don't need to take the whole fender well off to do the repair, but if you don't you be amazed how much oil and gunk you'll have in there the next time you do have take it off. Don't ask me how I know that.

My biggest reason for coming here, other than the fact that there is so much knowledge on this site, is that if I just bought it in somewhere to get fixed, the story stays untold for the next guy to read up on if having similar issues. I love asking the Google machine questions and finding answers! :High5:

The problem with leaking check valves is this little internal O Ring.

If you feel that you are running pressures that are too high, put a pressure gauge on it and find out for sure.
every .015 shim= approx #100
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...&iact=c&ictx=1

I'm not sure if this is actually too low. Readings at high idle, and WOT. I'm going to try shimming it I guess. There aren't any shims in there right now. I just need to find something....

I shimmed it and got the pressure to 130 WOT with no change in the amount of oil coming out of the check valves. Maybe it because I have the fenders off, but it seems like it's leaking worse today than this winter. It's about 60 degrees today, but I keep the shop at that temp where it lives during the winter?
I should clarify also, I'm shimming the relief valve on the top by the check valves. The manual shows the charge pump relief valve on the side, but there is nothing there. Maybe because I have a manual lift? I did also remove the pickup tube and made a mess, and it's not plugged nor did I find anything in there....

Hey guys. So I putzed around with this a little more for the last few days and can't figure out what the deal is. The manual says 90-165 is the correct pressure. I'm consistently getting 130 on the gauge. I took both check valves out, cleaned them, made sure they are free, and still the same. The relief valve also looks to be in good shape. No scoring or pitting. :bash2:
Ol George you had in a previous post about being at #500… Am I looking at the wrong thing in the manual and I'm still way under pressure? Maybe I have a bad pump?

My manual says w/o hydraulic lift 90-165 psi, with hydraulic lift 200 psi max. When I first posted about checking pressure I was thinking something was stuck allowing way to high of pressure and blowing out the little internal oring. It seems your pressure is good so I'm stumped about what could be causing your leak. Just to be sure, the leak is around the little button not the hex part of the valve, correct? Something is wrong for both your rebuilt and new valves to all be leaking. Without hydraulic lift the charge pump relief valve is on top. With hydraulic lift the one on top becomes the lift relief and the charge pump relief is on the side.

getting old I guess,:bash2:
here is the link to service manual pg 13, 15U type

http://files.danfoss.com/documents/s...l/bln-9646.pdf
*70-150 on non ported pump ( no implement lift)
*550-800 depending on what implement lift you have.
(in your case don't think you have that feature)

Maybe it's time to contact the seller that you bought the new valves from. Send him some pictures of your pressure readings while also showing the new valves leaking. Maybe he'd have some other suggestions.

Dart,
Both valves are leaking out of the week holes on top they are the auto style.
George,
That's okay. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.
Ironman,
I'll check with who I got them from to see if they can help any.
Thanks everyone, I'll let you know if I come up with anything.

In your first thread you say you purchased new ones. My question is, are they new? or rebuilt? I ask because when rebuilding you need to weld the tip back on after changing internal parts and o-rings. If this is not done with the finest of welds the valve would not bottom out correctly in the pump. Also, If the welder gets the valve a little too hot during welding it could begin to melt the new o-ring as well. This might cause it to work for a little while as you said but fail prematurely.

Cooperino, when I rebuilt my original ones I did it by filling the ends off rather than turn them. I only have a modified wood lathe, not a metal lathe. When I welded the ends back on I used my mig welder, and then filed the ends back down a little in my vice with the tip pointing down, and filling down, so I didn't get any metal in the valves. I thought I did everything right, but still had a leak. I bought new ones not rebuilt ones so I didn't have the same issue.... or so I thought.

Metal getting in was not really my concern. Heat from the welding is what i would be most concerned about. It doesnt take much heat to damage an o ring. Depending on who manufactures the new ones they could potentially have the same issue.

I just quickly tacked them when I did it, so the valve didn't get too hot. The only o-ring on it when I welded them was the internal one way at the top. There's no way that one got hot with 3 tack welds spaced out. I wouldn't have been able to hold the top of the valve after I was done. The new ones are crimped like the OEM ones.

Ah. Ok. Was just a thought.

Good thought. I'm speculating there maybe is something wrong with the vavles yet though. Im waiting to hear back from Hamilton Bob's. That's where I got them from.

I guess Bob is out until Tuesday, so I'll have to see what he says then. I've spoken to one of his guys who has been helpful, but is stumped also. Anyone here know how I could possibly bench test the check valves?

Never heard back from Hamilton Bob's again, but they will hear from me!
I bought an 1882 yesterday, and decided tonight to swap the check valves between the two tractors. The valves that were in the 1882 are bone dry in the 682, and the new ones that were in the 682 leak like crazy in the 1882:censored:
I never had an issue other than my original valve was just wore out and I replaced both of them to be proactive and created a new false issue with bad valves! :bash2:
THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO CHIMED IN ON THIS TRYING TO HELP!
Now I need to get some new non leaking valves to get the 682 up and going again.

Read my post #11,
2800 + customers say the guy does a good job.
your call, your $$$$

Thanks George. I'll likely send them to be rebuilt once I figure out what they are going to do with these. I know what I'd like to do with em!

YES!! ol'George was right on with the valves. I sent my valves to them and had them back in a week just in time to mow the grass again! $68.50 delivered for both they don't leak. Thank you ol'George.

I don't have valves to be rebuilt anymore. Negotiations fell apart and I'm not getting a good feeling from them anymore. I sent them back to get a refund today. I also ordered new ones from the guy you suggested George. When I get them, I'm actually going to put them in the 1882, and send the ones from it in for rebuilding to put on the 682. Now that I know there isn't actually an issue, I'll have all good ones and be set for a long long time! Thanks again everyone!:beerchug:

Glad things are working out, just to be clear, I don't have any ties whatsoever
with the ebay fellow, I just know what people have posted on OCC, and reading his feedback.
I actually need to send him a pair, so I have spares myself.:beerchug:

I finally got it all back together, the blower off, and the deck back on. I took it out and mowed for about 45 minutes today and I think we're back in business!