682 and Kwik-Way loader project
 

Here's the 682 I've been working on. I sold the 124 out from under my loader, so it's become time to put something else together for it. I've finally collected the right stuff to go through with this: An IH-built 682 (Oct. '79) and an engine smaller than the KT-17 that was in it. I wanted a K301AQS but wound up with a K321AQS instead. Oh well... The engine came from a 1250 and the iso-mounts were shot, so the pan has some wear, but I think it's usable if there's no cracks. I think every gasket and seal on that engine leaked, so I spent awhile yesterday degreasing the engine.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...7&d=1278204803

I've got a gasket set for it, and I'll be removing the balance gears (by disassembling the engine, if necessary) if I find any when I drop the pan to replace the leaky gasket. I'll also toss in a new set of points and condenser and new spark plug (and I might spring for a Pointsaver if I have any $$$ left over after I put this thing together). It also needs a head gasket, so perhaps I'll do a how-to for that while I'm at it.

Here's the tractor:

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...8&d=1278204810

That KT-17 must have been throwing oil for quite awhile...everything in the engine compartment was greasy. This tractor is in pretty good shape overall though; the rag joints are in great shape, and the rear coupler is still tight on the input shaft. I took the bearings out of the front wheels and found them to be in great shape, so I packed them with grease and reinstalled them. I also tightened the slop in the front axle by tightening the nut on the pivot bolt about half a turn, and greased the front spindles. I wanted to take the steering column out to go through the box, but I haven't been able to remove the steering wheel yet. So I spent most of the day cleaning the greasy mess off of the parts I removed.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...9&d=1278204816

The garage is very red at the moment...

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...0&d=1278204821

Thanks for the pics, Matt! Can't wait to see the finished product. :beerchug:

Looking great so far Matt!

Your 682 engine swap is looking very familiar :biggrin2.gif:

Jeff (teet)

Hey Jeff, does the starter wire reach, or do I need to add a longer one?

The wire harness needs to be re-routed to the rt side of the tractor near the steering column(I zip tie it to the column to clear the drive shaft). The starter wire was probably 6" too short, so yes you will need to add some length to it for it to reach. Also the headlight wires are now moved to the right side which need lengthening as well. Surprisingly the pto wire fit fine, as well as the regulator wiring. I tried umpteen ways to make some slack in the harness to get it closer to the rt side of the tractor.

Keep us updated on your progress,

Jeff (teet)

Finally got the steering wheel off. Had to make a puller out of a chunk of hardwood to use with a harmonic balancer puller. I wish I would have done that first. It came off very easily with this. The PO painted the end of the steering shaft red, for reasons I'll never understand, and then put the steering wheel on. That kept my penetrant from getting in there.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...2&d=1278263360

I'm no longer an advocate of the 'hammer, bolt, and nut' method for removing the steering wheel, as my attempt with it destroyed the lower bearing race.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...3&d=1278263368

The lower bearing race is on the left, upper on the right. The upper bearing race is in perfect condition. The galling from the my first steering wheel removal attempt is quite visible on the lower race. If I had just made the puller in the first place, I could have gotten away with new bearings and a cam follower...but now I need a bearing race, too.:bash2:

The damage to the bearing was caused by water, lack of grease, and age. If it was done by hammering the damaged areas would have been chipped and shiny, with some broken bearings.

Nope...box was full of grease, no water or evidence of water ever being there. The races are galled from the bearing balls being pounded into them. The balls even fit perfectly into the marks. I have taken apart several boxes with water damage in the past...this is not the same.

If that damaged was caused by a few hammer blows the bearing would never have lasted 30+ years. Bearings are made from hard metal and when hit they ether chip or break. The pits in the bearing is from the hard surface chipping off from years and years of use. The indentions in the bearing is from the steering wheel being used mostly in the same position for years, probably in the straight forward position.

Amigatec-

It was more than a 'few' hammer blows...this is the most stubborn steering wheel I've had in quite awhile. If the indentations are from the steering wheel being in the same position, the top bearing race should have looked the same, as there was preload on the assembly. The top race looks new other than a shiny surface where the bearing balls ride. The bottom race has radial and circumferential cracks visible on the backside...that's not normal wear and tear.

I had the column out of my 782D recently...one light tap of the hammer was all it took to get the steering wheel off of that one. The parts in that column were in comparable condition to this column, with one difference: BOTH bearing cups were in great shape, like the top one in this 682 column. One ball had a couple specks of chrome missing, so they all got replaced.

I rebuilt the steering column on a Model A Ford a few years ago, they are very similar to the Ross box used on the CC. I used a puller to remove the wheel and never hit it with a hammer and had the type of wear your box had. I had to replace the worm it was worn so bad.

I have seen that type of wear on wheel bearings and other bearings before and can say with 100% certainty that that wear was NOT caused by hammer blows. You would have bent the steering column before you would damaged the bearings.:beatdeadhorse:

I just don't want to see bad information put out.

Fine. I'm done pounding on my steering boxes though...whether or not that damaged the bearings, I'm not taking a chance, especially when the races can't be found. I'm also done arguing...you will not convince me that's normal wear. I have better things to do then continue to beat this dead horse.

The cam plate was badly warped (~1/8" runout from the pivot bolt to the end where the drag link attaches), but a few seconds with the hydraulic press and that's fixed.
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...6&d=1278291676

I pulled the fenders off, washed those, and then pressure washed the chassis...I think there was more oil protecting the chassis than there would have been in the engine. What a mess...

It's pretty clean now...
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...7&d=1278291687
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...8&d=1278291698

I can start reassembly soon if I can get a new follower and bearing race for my steering box.

Alright, forgive me, I said I was done with this, but since this came up on another forum, too, I decided to do a little experiment to see if I was wrong.

I disassembled a junk steering column (had a broken casting...don't worry, I didn't wreck anything that'd have been usable) and found one bearing race with cracks on the back and a nice-looking bearing surface (with light corrosion, no brinelling) that was unusable, nonetheless.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...1&d=1278342637

With the race in an adjuster plug, I put on a bearing and placed the end of a steering shaft in it. I then attached the nut and bolt to the end of the shaft and pounded on it for awhile, as if I was removing a steering wheel. With safety in mind, I did this on an anvil instead of risking reassembling a cracked steering box...I didn't want that to explode while I was doing this. Since I had this whole contraption on top of an anvil, I couldn't even swing the hammer with both hands, and I had to grab it near the head to avoid missing the bolt and smashing my other hand. I wasn't able to hit it very forcefully in this manner. After a couple minutes (less than what the column on my 682 went through as I tried unsuccessfully to remove the wheel) I wound up with this:

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...0&d=1278342648

This looks just like the lower race I pulled out of my 682's column. In conclusion, I think this proves it is possible to damage the bearings by pounding on the shaft to remove the steering wheel.

I've been following along on both forums Matt, and its pure common sense. You don't have to be a expert in metal fatigue analysis to see that pounding on the shaft is a no-no, and that is absolutely not regular wear and tear. I've torn apart and rebuilt several CCC and Ross columns, and have yet to see wear like that from 30 years of service. Great pics and description, I have to make up a wooden puller like that now :biggrin2.gif:


Jeff (teet)

Looks like you could use a bigger garage, my friend!

I made a bit more progress on the 682 today. I put the fenders back on and set the engine in it so I could drain the oil out of it and take the pan off.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...5&d=1278382039

I moved the wiring harness over to the other side with the hopes that the starter cable would reach. It's going to be very close.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...6&d=1278382047

I had to re-route the wiring a bit, and I added some chunks of rubber hose here and there to protect it from sharp edges and stuff.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...7&d=1278382056

I then removed the oil pan to check on the balance gears, and what I found was a relief:

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...8&d=1278382064

The oil pan in really bad. When I pulled this out of the 1250, only the rear two bolts were there. After drilling some of the peened-over metal out of the holes and running a tap through them, the threads are ok, but there's a lot of metal missing. I know someone with a TIG welder, so I'll have him build it back up, and then I'll mill it back down on a milling machine and hope the heat from welding doesn't warp it.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...9&d=1278382071

fuzzi4844-

Nah...there's 4 more tractors scattered around various parts of our barn. Both the other two could go out there if need be.

Looks like your making excellent progress Matt, and its especially nice to not have to remove the balance gears! Are you using the raised 82 Series engine mount that bolt to the ISO cradle? I didn't see them in the pic. I fabbed up some using the ones on my 1211 as a template to get the correct engine angle.

I wish I took pics along the way when I did my swap..ugh

Keep the updates coming


Jeff (teet)

Yeah, I will have a set of those on the way soon...I just wanted to see if there was any hope for the wiring and driveshaft fitting as-is. It can't be done without the risers...the oil pan hits the axle pivot bolt, and the driveshaft isn't inline with the rear.

I set my engine in there as well, and your right...everything hits. I think the harness will be even tighter with the engine tins on, and the raised mounts. Looks like your going to need a fuel pump too, these darn 82 series tanks are low at the petcock, but it is nice having the extra capacity. I totally forgot about the pump on mine till everything was together and I started plumbing the fuel lines....

Jeff (teet)

I've got about 3-4 of the old-style aluminum fuel pumps. Hopefully one of them will work. I've been thinking about that, just haven't gotten to it yet...gotta get the motor mounted first.

Actually, it'd be nice to be able to steer it without having to kick one of the front tires, first....:ExtremeFunny:

Yeah, I have a few of the ones that have the primer lever kicking around somewhere. I used one of the newer style ones from a M12 on my K301. I know that the plunger configuration differs on some of them, and it wont ride on the cam properly?? I wonder how an electric pump would work for this application?

Jeff (teet)

I'm going to put the pump on before I put the oil pan back on so I can make sure it interfaces right with the cam. If one doesn't, I'll buy a new one. $30 isn't too bad.

An electric pump would work, but it's hard to find ones with low enough pressure, and they can be expensive. I'd prefer a mechanical pump since it's not taking any juice from the battery when I'm trying to start this thing in the dead of winter.

:ThumbsUp: Nice job Matt! I like your choice in tractor for this project. Can't wait to read more on your project. Looks great.

Got a little more done on the 682 loader today. A friend of my dad's welded up the muffler box and oil pan, and I re-machined the pads on the bottom of the pan. It didn't warp much, but I wound up having to lap the gasket surface on my sheet of glass and sandpaper since we had to drill all the way through those two mounting holes, build up material, drill/tap through from the back, and then weld plugs into the holes on the gasket side.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...8&d=1278640470
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...9&d=1278640477

I also moved the hydraulic lines further forward on the front crossbrace to get more room so I can hopefully slide the loader back another inch.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...0&d=1278640494

I'm also using a spare frame and junk aluminum rear to make it easier to build the subframe.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...1&d=1278640502

My steering column parts are in, so tomorrow I'll get those, get some steel to brace the engine mount rails, and get more steel for the subframe.

Nice work, Matt! Thanks for the progress pics. :beerchug:

Looking good Matt. I've been following this thread can't wait to see how it turns out for you.

I got a bit more done on the 682 today. I found a better source for some of the metal I need for the loader subframe, but I can't pick it up until Monday. I did get my steering column back together. Here's all the shiny new parts and the cleaned old parts:

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...7&d=1278724908
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...8&d=1278724921

The surface of the pivot bolt was very rough for some reason, so I polished it with emery paper, and then wiped it down with mineral spirits. Actually, I cleaned all of the parts I was re-using with mineral spirits to remove anything that may have gotten into the while they were sitting around the past week. I was rather surprised how poorly the new $25 follower stud matched the profile of the worm:

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...9&d=1278724950

Last year I ordered new bearing races for the steering box for the 100 I was going through, and the races were square and didn't fit right. Someone else here ran into this recently, too. I have since learned that using the really cheap ($10) IH-71930-C91 kit with two bearings, retainers, and races fits properly in the steering box, unlike the separate races I tried to get last year. Just thought I'd pass that along...if you're rebuilding a steering box, that's the thing you need, and it doesn't show up in the parts lookup diagram.

I got the box completely assembled, complete with Nice 605V thrust bearing and nylock nut.
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...0&d=1278724962

I then installed it into the tractor, replaced the tie rod ends on the drag link with Heim joints, and put the steering wheel on temporarily (with anti-seize so I don't have to go through the same shenanigans to remove it again if I need to) and...wow! Steers like new! I can't wait to drive it.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...1&d=1278724973

I put hose clamps around the top and bottom of the box to hopefully strengthen it and avoid splitting it in half along the mold line.

After fixing our hydraulic press yesterday, I came up with this fixture to bend 1/4" thick steel flat stock to make various things.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...2&d=1278725094

It works great...the bends are cleaner and more accurate than they would have been if I had heated the piece with a torch and bent it. I used it to bend brackets that will attach the subframe to the axle housing.
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...3&d=1278725100

They didn't come out so great though; the axle tubes taper, and the bend radius isn't tight enough to avoid loading the tube at the corner of the hex, so I'm going to cut this in half at the middle bend, readjust the two halves so it fits the taper of the axle tube, spreading the load out, and then weld them back together.

MATT.
Question on the steering rebuild. I see these rebuild kits on epay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/IH-Cub-Cadet-Gar...item19bd9e2361

http://cgi.ebay.com/IH-Cub-Cadet-Gar...item19bd9ccfeb

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cub-Cadet-Garden...item19bd6e0afe


Are these OK, or can I get the parts myself cheaper, or is there a better option.

Thanks JOE

Those are all a ripoff, particularly the last one. The thrust bearing is about $2, nut about the same. Bearing replacement for the upper column bushing should be less than $5. Parts from CC are as follows: Bearing kit, $10; Follower, $25; Seal, $11ish; foam washer, not sure, but cheap. There's only $60 worth of parts in that $100 kit he's selling. Get the CC parts from CC and the nice 605 thrust bearing from Motion Industries or similar bearing supply place. Fastenal has the nuts, but you have to buy a bag of 10 or so.

Thanks Matt.
I know it would take some time. But I have to ask. Could you do a (how to) on rebuilding the steering box with the tricks, upgrades, and part numbers. I would appreciate it, and I would bet others would to.

Thanks JOE

That would Rock Matt!

I will probably put something together, although it may not have as many pictures as my other how-tos, since (1) I've already done it, so I can't take any more pictures, and (2) rebuilding a steering box is a really greasy mess...not great for the camera.

I haven't made a whole lot of progress in the past couple of days. I finally picked up some more steel for part of the subframe, and I got a few random pieces cut and positioned on the mock-up frame, and I cleaned up an old Kohler metal-body fuel pump and I think I got it to work again. It shows 2.5 psi on my fuel pump tester and holds it. I wish someone was still making rebuild kits for those...they're so much nicer than the plastic ones that you get now.

And then today the shifter linkage in my Saturn decided it had enough, leaving me stuck in reverse in a parking lot a few miles from home. I had to call my dad to bring a couple tools I didn't have in the car so we could take off the center console and duct-tape the linkage together to limp it home. You can guess what I spent the rest of the day fixing instead of working on my tractor...:bash2:

I am slowly making progress on my loader subframe. I'm mostly happy with the axle clamps now, and I've got one done, and the other about 75% done. I had to cut both and weld them back together to get match the profile of the axle tube correctly.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...2&d=1279071035
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...3&d=1279071044
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...4&d=1279071051

Thanks for the progress pics, Matt! :beerchug:

I got a little bit more done on the 682 loader today. The new mounts for the uprights are welded, and the subframe now looks like this:

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...0&d=1279588376
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/a...1&d=1279588391

I put the rails on the tractor to check the fit. The 682 frame was not quite the same as the cyclops frame I'm using as a jig. I think the tolerances on these frames might be looser than I initially thought. Drilling the front mounting holes to 37/64" cured that problem, and I then cut slots in the rectangular tubing so I could slide it over the rails. I can't easily explain how annoying it is to cut slots in steel tubing without a milling machine...but it can be done. It just takes a lot longer with a drill press, die grinder, and assorted files. Tomorrow I might actually think about welding the subframe, but I think I'll get the tractor finished first. I now have all of the engine mounting pieces, so I just need to weld up a cradle and install the engine so I can test-drive the tractor to see what else I need to do before the loader goes on it.

Great pics, Matt! Thanks for updating us. :ThumbsUp:

Would anyone happen to know either of the dimensions marked in red on this picture of a 680/1282/1210/1211 engine cradle?

I can get them tonight after I get home. Won't be till after 6pm.