Hydrostat Adjustment
 

Whenever I depress the brake/clutch of the 149 all the way down, it wants to creep forward. So, how do I adjust this so that neutral really is neutral and there would be no creeping forward when the lever is in the neutral position. Also, the hydrostat on my 149 allows me to adjust between forward and reverse on the go, but on my 123 I have to depress the clutch before making the change--were they designed differently since the 123 is from 1967 and the 149 is from 1973? Thanks in advance for the consideration of my questions!!

Cub Cadet 123

149, take the tunnel cover off, there is a rod between the trunnion and the petal. I beleive it will have to be adjusted to be a bit longer. Once you take the tunnel cover off and spend a minute figuring how things work, you'll see what I mean. As for the 123, I think sonethings screwy there. You may want a helper to move the lever while you look from the bottom to see if something is catching in the trunnion assembly. The trunnion assembly is the same on both tractors, so you could use the 149 for a reference. Good luck!

No. He needs to download the service manual from the Tech Library and read up on the operational neutral adjust procedure.

Cub Cadet 123-

Basically, you need to remove the tunnel cover on the 149 and loosen the two bolts that hold the cam linkage bracket to the pump. The holes are slotted so the plate can be moved up and down. Move it all the way up, and tighten one of the bolts slightly so it can't move on its own. Put the tractor on jackstands so the rear wheels are in the air, and then start the tractor and put the lever in neutral. The wheels will probably be spinning. Using a hammer and brass rod, very carefully (stay far away from the cooling fan) tap the cam linkage bracket down until the wheels stop spinning. Shut off the tractor, tighten the bolts, and put the tunnel cover back on, and you're all set.

MattG- Would this be the same procedure for a 1450???

Yep. I think the procedure is essentially the same for every hydro CC.

I haven't taken a whole lot of time to try and figure out the cam and trunnions, last time I needed to fabricate a new bushing for the cam. Since I was there I figured I would see if I could make 'pedal down' = neutral.

Just like the time(s) before, when pushing the pedal down made the tractor stop I lost way too much reverse.

I'm thinking this is a design 'feature' to limit ground speed in reverse, I'm having none of it, I adjust the cams for full/ max speed and ignore the pedal when it comes to stopping.

So I'm curious, any one else loose ground speed in reverse when the pedal is adjusted to stop the tractor?

It is possible to have full range of forward and reverse speed while still having the pedal adjusted for proper neutral/stop. Follow Matt's recommendation for the cam linkage bracket adjustment, adjust the control rod, and possibly adjust the brake linkage rod.

I have followed this procedure from the service manual on my 1211, 682, and 127 and I have full ground speed in forward and reverse with neutral via the pedal dead nuts. It takes a little patience to get it adjusted right, but is very simple to do.

If you lose ground speed in reverse because the pedal is adjusted to neutral, then something else is not adjusted correctly...imho


Jeff (teet)

If you lost reverse, THEN you probably need to change the length of the linkage rod and then redo the operational neutral adjust. I'm just not sure whether to lengthen or shorten the rod:Huh:

I'm in this same boat now after trying to "tweak" my 127 some more.... Have you tried this yet cub 123? That way I can "cheat" off someone else and might not have to do as much work. :)

Follow MattG's instructions above. I just did this procedure to my 1450 yesterday and it worked great. Have some patience, it took 3 attempts to get it perfect.

Matt didn't know whether to sorten or lengthen the rod, that's what I was hoping to cheat from :)

If reverse is barely there, I think you need to lengthen the rod, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

I'm getting ready to go out now and get started.... I'm just worried how hard it's going to be to adjust the clevis on a 39 year old rod that's never been turned...

Gary,

No, I haven't gotten around to it. I've been battling my starter/generator and seem to have resolved that issue so the hydrostat issue will be my next project when I get some time to look at it. My problem is just that mine barely creeps forward in the neutral position. I still have full reverse and all, so it isn't a major issue with me......I just kind of like to have things work exactly as they should. Let me know how yours comes out.

Cub Cadet 123

I would try just doing the "neutral" adjustment before you start jacking around with the rod length. Might save you a real headache.......

Cub - this morning I went back and pretty much started reading the service manual from page 1. The only real thing I've got accomplished today so far was tightening the speed control lever per the service manual. It looks like that has made a difference in my case. The manual calls for a wedge or keystock to help tighten the nut, but I ended up taking the wheel off and dropping the steering column so I could get a 1-1/16 open end wrench on it. It looks now like I'm just getting a little fight out of the hydro when I press and hold in on the brake. Hopefully the neutral adjust will take care of that...

Well I just did the neutral adjust on the 127 again, after tightening the friction. It looks like it's took care of the problem. I'd definitely give it a shot Cub Cadet 123. I've got a few videos posted on youtube if you're interested too...

Thanks Gary! Recently, I've been battling my ZForce (Zero Turn Cub). Seems there was a problem with one of the 5 safety switches, but I was really baffled. Seems all that I had to do was knock out a plastic tamper resistant clip from behind on the wire terminal for the seat safety switch......jeezzz!!! I appreciate the simplicity of the '60's cubs, with only 1 safety switch!!! I'll try tackling the 149 later ....right now, it is at my other house, several miles away. Thanks again for the tip!!

Cub Cadet 123

I am the proud new owner of a CC 1450 (only 1 photo so far) and I haven't had a chance to give it a once over yet. I have noticed that it is leaking fluid (very slow rate) from the rear. I think the gasket on the rear plate is bad and it looks like someone previous to me tried some liquid gasket on it or something. A new one has en route.

Anyway, is there a way to disconnect the hydro on a CC so that you can free wheel it around? My Dixon has this feature and it has come in handy a few times. I'm just wondering if I get stuck somewhere the best way to get it towed out.

NiasNeb,

:Welcome2: I'm not for sure about the 1450, but the hydrostats have a hydrostat release valve lever located down under the right-hand side of the seat. When this lever is engaged (and functioning properly), then the manual release valves are depressed allowing for one to roll the cub as needed. Some guys replace their manual release valves with automatic and don't require this lever anymore. Sorry, I just haven't been around any 1450's to advise you on them, but this is the way the other hydrostats are from the late '60's or early '70's models.

Cub Cadet 123

guys, just having acquired a new to me 1450 2 days ago, i have been doing research on the relief valves. on models 1450 and 1650 S/N 590521 and below have manual unloading check valves, hince there should be a lever to release hydro pressure so you can push/pull your tractor. on models 1450 and 1650 S/N 590522 and after will have self-unloading check valves (as mine has auto valves) and no release lever. on my tractor, after i shut it off, within about a minute, maybe less!! it will release on it's own. i had parked on a slight downgrade at my dads house, got off of it and walked to the porch and my dads telling me: DAD: son, your mower is rolling. ME: huh?? DAD: YOUR MOWER IS ROLLING DOWN THE HILL ME: oh, ok! here i go trying catch it, i got it. so now i have to park on flat or put the parking break on. i'm not used to the hydros, this is my first!!! i hope this helps and also makes you laugh!!! jeff
P.S. go to the technical library-tractor on this site, go to the chassis manual on QLs. once there, type in page 56 at the top where it has ?? / 145. this starts the hydro section of your tractor.

That's the one sort of annoying thing about the self-unloading check valves...they self-unload if the tractor is shut off on an incline. You'll have to set the brake so it doesn't roll away.

Ya, that does bring a good mental picture. :)

So is that what they mean when people advertise for sale a cub cadet as a "roller"?:bigthink: ....:biggrin2.gif:

Cub Cadet 123

You know when you want to move the ones with the self unloading valves they don't wanna move,then move when you don't want them to.Sometimes you have to remove the tunnel cover and loosen the valves with a 15/16 wrench.

That's pretty good, Jeff. I can picture you running after the 1450. :biggrin2.gif:

Before you do this adjustment, the brake has to be adjusted first. Then, I've noticed engine speed (rpm) might play into this adjustment as well. When you guys do this, with the rear wheels jacked up, where do you have the throttle set? Low idle or full throttle? I still don't have this adjustment right on my 1250. Need to do it again.

I adjusted my 1250 at full throttle. Of course I had the fender pan and drive shaft cover removed while doing other work. Made it much easier to work on.
And yes I also had adjusted my brakes before doing the hydro adjustment. Is your trunion wore and are the trunion springs old? Would be a good time to go ahead and fix those issues. I can't believe the difference all that made with mine.

I'm not that familiar with trunion or trunion springs, short of looking it up. Could you descibe these pieces & where they are located? Also, are these the pieces others have said should be replaced as good maintainece procedures on high hour tractors?

Thanks, FJK

Here is a picture of the hydro trunion that usually needs to be welded up. It is the yellow section perpendicular to the grey cam bracket. If you look real good you can see filing marks where I welded it up then filed it down. The springs set inside that. Overtime the springs make the opening larger, making adjustments almost impossible until you get it repaired. Also the springs loose their tension over time. I replaced both springs and the guide ends, the round piece at each end of the spring.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/b...DSC01084-1.jpg

Thanks DX3, that picture & your statements explains ALOT. That area of my tractor is always covered with alot of grease & dirt. I suspect when I clean it off, I'll see what is worn. If I read your explination correctly, does that trunion block get a groove cut in it from the rectangular slot in the grey piece? The wear is probably why I can't make the adjustment in the first place. My tractor has about 1400 hrs.

You will actually get grooves and wear in the yellow arm from the spring end guides. The rectangle that the spring and guides set in, needs to be square. It is not very hard to weld and fill in the areas, just do a small amount at a time. If you have to do this.. wrap a wet rag or towel down around the hydro unit to keep the heat from melting the oil seal. Hence the reason to weld small amounts at a time and file down till you get it as good as you can. It actually only took me about 20 minutes of work to get mine filled in and back close to square. The spring ends should be allowed to move back and forth. I used the grey piece as a guide for making sure the bracket was square. The center portion of the grey bracket is an exact match in size to the yellow one. Also as Matt showed me too, both of those brackets will get loose with years of use. He suggested using shim washers behind the snap rings to take up unnecessary back and forth play.

Here is a pic showing the area's to shim. I ordered the shims from McMaster Carr.

1/2" ID at .005 a packet of 10
5/8" ID at .005 a packet of 10

I used 4 5/8 shims on the gray bracket down under the springs
and I think about 3 shims on the yellow bracket beside the hydro filter as seen in the picture. I also removed both of those brackets and cleaned all rust from behind them as they both need to move freely. I also used a drum sander on my dremel to clean out the round hole the shafts fit into.
I hope some of this makes sense for you.
Also as seen in the picture, there is a white plastic shaft shim that I replaced. Mine was severely worn allowing the bracket to wobble even more than it should have.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/b...sale/shims.jpg

I think this site is pretty <adverb> awesome. My next project will be to get internet in the garage.

I looked at the thing again Saturday. Do I need to remove the cover between the seat and the console (I think what is referred to as the tunnel cover) get to these? Also to replace them can I just unscrew them and pop the new ones in or will springs and gears come flying out and reach the far corners of the garage?

[QUOTE=Wild Bill;40719]Here is a diagram of the trans controls for a WF 1x9 series tractor
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...nscontraol.gif

I have a 129 with the controls as parts 16, 18, 19, 20, & 21 above. Is there any repair procedures to replace parts 20 & 21? I haven't dis-assembled anything yet, so I don't know if there is any wear on part 18.

Thanks,
LD

Wow!! My original question has gotten many responses on this issue and I am very pleased to have all of the valuable information at hand. Even though I haven't had the opportunity to get to this yet on my 149, I am now much better prepared to do so when time will lend itself that way for me--it sounds like such a simple, easy thing to do and I was almost there just yesterday when my nephew dropped by for a visit, so all I got done was my hydro release spring steel replaced on my lever. Nonetheless, I plan on working on the "creepy thing" soon. Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has given input on this thread and I hope that it has helped several others out there, as well. Once again, I am reminded of the great team of minds who take their time to help each other out in this forum. I've noticed a lot of our newbies come on here and state how great this site is for advice and friendliness, so I just want to further echo that sentiment and say those two words that are seldom spoken these days, but rarely forgotten........."THANK YOU!!":IH Trusted Hand:

Cub Cadet 123

Release Valves
 

RE: The photo above from DX3.

Are those automatic or manual release valves (or one of each even)? Mine both look like the one on the right. I'm trying to figure out if those are automatic or not (because it won't roll freely) and if they are manual how do I disengage them? Is there a thread somewhere (that I just haven't found yet) that documents this process?

Mine has one of each, from what I have learned here, some of the early model quiet lines were put out like that from the factory. I do not have to push the valve down to move my mower around. The right one is the automatic valve.

The one on the right is an automatic valve.

DX3, you should be depressing the lever for whatever direction the manual valve is connected to, or you risk this:

Attachment 5320

I am VERY suspicious of the notion that some of the QLs came from the factory with one of each. That doesn't make any sense at all, as the lever wouldn't be able to actuate the manual valve, and if the tractor was supposed to have two auto valves, there would be no lever to release them, so either way, the tractor wouldn't be able to be safely rolled in one direction.

NiasNeb-

The manual ones are operated by depressing the button in the center. There should be a lever on the side of the tunnel cover with a tab that depresses the buttons.

Thanks. I was hoping that was the case. Both on mine look like the right one. Perhaps I wasn't waiting long enough because when I went up to the garage a few minutes ago I as able to push the thing forward and backwards about 1 foot. I suspect if the valves were not working properly I wouldn't be able to do that. Would that be correct?

I have casters that I can use to move it around the garage but my worry is if I should get stuck in the alley; how I would move it to the safety of a garage until I can figure it out. I still suspect the motor might need some TLC or possibly replaced. Something up there is rattling pretty good and on some starts I get a little puff of black smoke. I just want to get this thing dependable so if that means re-powering it then that's what I'll do.

Hmmm.. glad to know about needing to be depressed. Of course there is no lever on the tunnel cover. All I know is it rolls fine forward or backward if I have to move it around in my shop. I'll just start running the engine to move it then, sure don't want to mess up the hydro. I was also basing my comment on the fact I have seen a few pics of the same set up with the valves like mine here on the site, and IIRC, it had been mentioned that some of the very first QL's were done like this. Think I'll keep my eyes posted for some extra automatic valves to keep on hand and to replace the manual one with.