My K301A uses oil
 

As you may well already know I replaced my K161 with a K301A 12 hp Kohler engine.
Well the engine does not smoke on start up or full throttle but it does consume oil after mowing approximately 3 acres of grass I have to add oil as dip stick read 1/4 full after I finished mowing. Any thoughts on this? I am currently using Rotella 30 weight oil, what type & grade oil do you use in your Cub? And does your engine use any oil please specify engine type Thanks!

Rebuild it

If you're losing that much oil, you may have bad crankshaft seals. You definitely need to pull that motor and find where all that oil is going.

These old engines are tired after many years. If there's no external leaks, Pull the spark plug and take a look at it, you'll probably see evidence of oil getting burnt. A combination of the cylinder in them getting out of round and worn rings is most likely the culprit. Unfortunately it's time to rebuild.

The crankcase only holds 1.5 qts IIRC. you can't be burning a quart of oil. The motor would lock up if it was that low. If the dipstick reads 1/4 full, then you would add 3/4 of a pint to bring it up to full.

I'll tell you the same thing I told you to do with your 161. Either pay someone to overhaul it, or you overhaul it. I'm not surprised at all that this motor burns oil. All the K series engines are old and tired.

I farmed out a Kohler K241 from my model 100 5 years ago to be rebuild. The engine is in my model 72 and it runs awesome, with power! Once I get my collection of IH Cub Cadets up to par, I'm going to learn the skill of rebuilding myself!

The first step to rebuilding your own engines is to get some of the specialty tools needed. You will need a torque wrench that goes down to 10ft/lbs, I know Snap On has one and I'm sure other brands do to. You will also need a good set of feeler gauges, a valve spring compressor would also be handy but not necessary since the machine shop can remove and install the new valves. Other than that you just need basic hand tools. There's really not much to these engines and the manual will tell you everything you need to know so read it and then read it again and then again and have it sitting next to you to reference while building the engine.

Ideally you need a torque wrench that reads in inch pounds.

Don't forget a good puller helps too to remove the flywheel and bearing plate. Some come off easy, others not so much

Good point, I didn't think of that while I was running the process through my head. Point I was trying to make was to start buying tools now that way he has them when the time comes, rebuilding an engine and having to buy all the specialty tools at the same time could get costly but slowly buying the tools over time will lesson the wallet hurt.

Overhauling engines isn't for everyone. As a mechanic, or mechanically inclined person it's easy to say that it's "easy". It's not easy. Not to everyone. Reading the service manual doesn't make you a mechanic.

I'm a really smart guy, but I don't know jack about computers. Everyone says, "oh, they're so easy to understand". (I am talking about building one, or figuring out why one isn't working right.) Not to me. All that jargon is Greek to me. Doesn’t mean I'm stupid, it's just not my area of expertise, so I avoid it. I encourage others to know what they are good at and stick with that. If you're not a mechanic, don't try to be one. Put in some extra time at your real job and make some extra money, then pay someone who owns the tools and possess the knowledge to do the hard stuff.

While I agree that some people are not mechanically inclined I will disagree that building a k series isn't for everyone. If they follow the manual and ask the right questions here then there is no reason why anybody can't build one, put part A into part B and tighten bolts to X isn't exactly rocket science. When my son was younger I would always build his Lego sets for him but he's almost 7 and now he reads the instructions and builds them himself, this is really no different and I'm pretty sure I could talk him through building a k series. I think most of the problem with inexperienced people is the intimidation that goes along with doing something outside of their comfort zone.

Since we're talking about rebuilding engines I have a question. I recently had the 301 out of the 129 to replace the governor gear and now it seems to burn oil. Here's the question, when I rebuild it, do any of you leave the balance gears out? I was just reading "50 Years of Cub Cadet" (page 63) and it said it is a common practice when rebuilding these engines to leave them out, is this true?

Yep. Leave out the gears. I never put them back in.

I think painting is easy too, but not everyone can do it.

I agree with you only if every single part is replaced brand new, whether it needs it or not. Problem is, no one wants to spend the money to do it that way. If being a mechanic was that easy, my 10 year old could do it. He reads at a high school lever and follows Lego instructions perfectly. It's not the so much the knowledge as it is the experience.

As most have said, if it is not leaking externally, or smoking or knocking. you have 2 choices:
Add oil as needed, and continue using it
or have it overhauled.
Oil is inexpensive so you can put some $$ away each pay day toward an overhaul.
I doubt that you are consuming huge amounts of oil as stated, or it would be fouling the plug and showing signs of smoking quite noticeably out the exhaust.
Do check and add oil every time before you start it or it will pitch the rod and you will be looking for another engine.:beerchug:

Does your exhaust have a carbon or wet looking buildup?

Is the dipstick for the K301 the correct one?

I'm with you completely on the computer thing. I hate them, when ever they wont do what I want them to because I can't figure out how to make them again do what they are supposed to.... and because I can't fix/modify the variety that run cars trucks and equipment, I much prefer old mechanical versions.

Thanks you all for your comments & suggestions on this engine Good stuff here, & I was just guessing at the amount of oil added as I did not measure it.
The lower dipstick only had 1/4 of oil in it so to top it off not sure what amount it took, it has a deep sump oil pan & Herb Kroger told me the other day to make sure I check the oil level before each use which I do but it just seems strange that its not leaking oil or smoking on start up or in use or at full throttle & this engine has plenty of power to turn a 38" 3 blade deck & runs quiet & is very fuel efficient. I would think if it was burning oil past the rings it would be smoking but it's not. I dont mind adding oil before each use but maybe the 30 weight Rotella isnt the best oil to be using.
With that said what type & grade of oil do you guys use in your machines?

30wt Rotella.

I'd hope your 12hp has plenty of power for a 38" deck. A 10hp will run a 50" deck.

30W non-detergent or synthetic oil is what they need in summer, 10W30 is what they need in cold weather (winter). The reason for using non-detergent oil in a K series is simple "NO OIL FILTER SYSTEM" so you don't want to wash the crankcase and bring back those nasty particles back in your oil, better let them stick where they are.

Now I can give you a long list of good oil brand but the shell Rotella 30W you use is a good one, Mobil Delvac 1630 is another good choice. 30w synthetic are pretty expensive but some guy find them for cheaper at a local boat dealer (Look for the Volvo Penta brand apparently)

Now "IF" you decide to rebuild your engine yourself, add a dial bore gauge to your list of tools already suggested and learn how-to set it and use it, you can get one today for
-$50 and they are enough accurate for mechanical precision spec demand (.001).

Unless you own a boring bar, you don't need a bore guage. The machine shop will take care of all that. A good set of ribbon gauges are handy though to make sure the shop fit the piston correctly.

Jon, you can wait for the machine shop to tell you what you need and lost one or two extra weeks before getting the job done or you can save big money and time doing the disassembly part, taking your measurements and ordering your rebuilt kit from EB for dirt cheap. Then your bring the block, the crank, the rebuilt kit and the valves if you want the machine shop to do that for you too and you save some precious waiting time.

Machine shop quote for rebuilt kit is let say...insane sometime and a cylinder boring and crankshaft grinding cost me $300 loonies, for the K321 I did, imagine if I let them do all the job for me...So a boring tool is not just a luxury tool for me, even a simple telescopic set can be useful.

Tell me Jon, do you check the bore and condition of a cylinder each time you open one of those engine to do a valves or just a head gasket job? I bet you do, if you don't I never let you work on my engine. :biggrin2:

Gilles,
I have overhauled hundreds of motors, and only in the last few years owned a bore gauge. I disassemble and evaluate the parts, but the block goes straight to a machine shop. Usually within two days of drop off they rough cut the bore, then call and tell me what size it will be, then I order the kit. Even with a bore gauge, you can't always find the lowest spot in the cylinder, especially if it has a scratch of a groove in it. You just have to bore until it goes away. I am 100 times more interested in the fit of the piston, than the size of the bore. Whether it is standard, .010" over or .040" over, the piston fit is the key the life of the motor. You check that with a ribbon gauge. I never go back standard when I overhaul an engine, so I had no need to check the bore. Don't care what it is, only what it will be so I can order a kit, and the machine shop tells me right away what I need. All this also goes for the crankshaft. While I do own mic's, and do check cranks, it is still irrelevant until it is ground and true. Measuring a crank is much easier than measuring a bore anyway. Along with a bore gauge, you also need a set of calibration gauges to set the bore gauge. Every time you change out the size of the tip on the bore gauge, you have to calibrate it to the new standard cylinder size. If you also own a micrometer, you can use it to set the tool..... but there is simply no reason for DIY guy to own a set of these tools when the machine shop does all the work for you. As I stated, even as a professional, I didn't own a bore gauge until about 5 years ago. Even now, it seldom gets used. Going to bore it no matter what, and I don't own a boring bar.... so, it sits in the toolbox. :beerchug:

Well working around Bell helicopter, Bombardier and Pratt & Whittney Ap mechanic and technician at my local airfield made me a bit paranoid about precision...But that's me and I completely assuming my condition :biggrin2:

Now my local airfield close 3 months ago, all my friend are relocate 40 miles from my place so I have no access to the Sioux valves grinding tool :angry:

I need one of those Neway kit to do those Kohler engine any tips to share? I guest not.... not the place, not the moment, not the subject of this thread even if we talk about a possible rebuilding job :RollEyes2:

Let the pros be pros is how I was taught. If you measure it and it needs to go to the machine shop, let them tell you what piston and rod/bearings to buy. They will advise if you need new valves. That's the way the IH dealer dad retired from did it anyway. The 2 shops we always dealt with will let you know usually in 2-3 days what parts to order. They will even let you send in your parts and have them reassemble the engine if you want. Or they can order from their suppliers.

Im not sure on this as I am far no "expert" on Anything but it appears this subject has turned in to a pissing contest.:Choke:

No pissing contest at all, this is normal "$hit chat", Jon know his game and I live in my own world surrounded by PT6 unicorn and little Continental powered Jodel fairy...LMAO :biggrin2:

I follow Jonathan's method. Disassemble, take to machine shop, they call a couple days later with bore specs, I order the kit and it's in hand a few days later. I bought a bore mic, but it's not worth the effort IMO.

As for rebuilding your own engine, it's not for everyone, but it is something that you can learn to do. The effort will vary depending on your aptitude and prior experience. I'm no professional mechanic, but I've been building and repairing things since I was a kid. For me, with the Kohler manual, it's a straightforward process. I've done a half dozen over the past 5 years.

As for computers, Jon, you could learn to build one if you really wanted to do it. I'm quite sure. But like you, there are things I always call the pro for--like septic system work...:biggrin2:

Lol!
:IH Trusted Hand:


Frank,
I'm sure I could learn..... but that's what my bro Lance does, so I have no desire, lol.

I'm late to the game here obviously, but I might as well chime in.

My 14 HP uses oil pretty heavily too. It's def. a hybrid, or a 60/40 engine. (60% gas, 40% oil.) I run 30wt in the summer months and 10w 30 in the winter. It's still got power so I'm gonna keep dumping oil in it and run it till I either blow it up or deem it's smoking too bad it needs a rebuild. We rebuilt my dads 12 HP in about 2002-03 and it's still running/driving strong. (course we used genuine Kohler parts...)

This thing can be classed as a chemical weapon! I bet you and all your closer neighbors don't have any mosquitos! :biggrin2:

Thanks thats what I needed to hear & my mechanic put International 30 weight oil in it & advised me today if engine uses too much Rotella 30 oil to switch to the international 30 weight oil that is specifically designed for tractors.
I ran this engine hard for 3 &1/2 hours mowing not only my lawn but 3 & 1/2 ft weeds in a field behind my house on a real hot day.
Im going to check engine oil after each use & see whats going on here & no more mowing tall weeds only my grass.
Thanks again!

Thanks!
:IH Trusted Hand::IH Trusted Hand::IH Trusted Hand:

Your engine is already 40+ years old, changing your brand of oil can't help it so much because he burn or loose plenty already, in old Harley air cooled V-twin we use to put straight SAE 50W to help them.(Less leak, better compression but a bit harder to start)

I don't know if anyone have try this in a K series engine and if it's a good idea but I never see one of those old HD throwing a rod because of high viscosity oil, they do it for lot of others reasons...:biggrin2:

I own 2 Harleys a 55 panhead & a 02 Sportster 883R with a Screaminn eagle 1250 kit
But I run $14.00 a quart sceamin eagle motor oil in the Sportster & 50 weight racing oil in the Panhead.

I used to run 50W in my "K" model, but it was nor a Kohler:biggrin2:

What was it ?

Harley "K" model,
it was a flathead race bike in it's day.
http://www.harleykmodel.com/

In those days guys didn't wear chaps just to look tough or cool, they wear them to stop getting burn by the oil "spitting" from the engine! Girls like those old "shaker" but technology helping they now can ride on new bike wearing bikini and sun tan oil...(Sturgis:-) You can't stop progress. :biggrin2: