1650 starting issues
 

My 1650 is acting up while starting. Well end of last summer when I would try and turn it over it the starter would sometimes barely turn and stop. I would have to keep turning the ignition off and on to cycle the starter and keep the key turned on till the starter finally turned the engine over. Sometimes it would turn right over and fire up. Well the other day the battery post finally leaked enough acid so I went and got a new diehard and threw it in. Started fine once and then did the same barely crank and then stop. Almost like compression is keeping it from turning. The starter gear was engaged into the flywheel when I took the starter off to check the connections. I did hook it strait to a battery and seemed to spin well. Don't really know what I was looking for since Ive never hooked one up direct to check them. The engine has 63 hrs on a rebuild and the starter is 3 years old. Battery just replaced. All my connections seem good, tight and clean. So what are your thoughts?

When i first got it it did not have any trouble starting. it still has the original ground setup in it right now. The wire off the negative terminal goes right down into the frame and another ground cable in the front by the aluminum grill to the starter bolt. it is on a 2 amp charger right now making sure the battery is good to go before i try and get in out of the rain and into the garage. i am on quite a time crunch. i leave to go overseas for 6 months next week and trying to get the tractor ready for the summer.

Just because the cable are there doesn't mean there is a good connection. Pull them off, wire brush them and anti seize them or something equivalent.

Sometimes the smallest thing can cause problems. Hope this might help.

If you are in the service, thank you sir!!




Randy

I'm hoping the rain stops so i can get it in the garage and rip apart the wires. when the battery was changed i did clean those connections with baking soda and water. i use dielectric grease on the connections to help with corrosion. i need to wire wheel and check everything else out. do y'all know of a comparable selinoid from tractor supply or napa. i dont think i will have enough time to order one and get it here. and yes i am in the service and very happy to serve. ill hit 20yrs while deployed.

i also here that a ford solenoid can work also but it has one extra terminal. any particular way to deal with the extra terminal. can i wire it in to either one of the terminals. anyone have a good part number for it? i have no clue if that is the problem, just researching while i can't work on it.

When I experienced a similar issue on my 1250, I tested voltage at the solenoid and at the starter and found that my ignition switch was very picky about when it would engage the starter solenoid. It would make a connection briefly, but would open the circuit if I turned the switch just a hair too far. Replaced the switch and ran new primary leads for negative and positive. Cranks in single digits without a hitch.

Did you check the timing since the rebuild? Also may want to check the valves clearance.

just recently redid the timing using an ohm meter.

I have had good luck using a 1988 Ford Crown Vic starter solenoid on my 1450. They are almost the same shape as the original Quiet Line's s.s .

Could be an ignition switch. I can't think of a good reason your starter is sticking in the fly wheel?

Thank you for serving!

I can, the bendix is probably cruddy. Clean it up and lube it.

I had problems with my 14hp turning over hard. Found the spring on the auto compression release disengaged with the weight. This was easily repaired by removing the cam gear cover. Once I removed the cover I was able to see the spring was disengaged, and able to re-engage it with a pick set.

IMO this is a weak spot of all K series Cub Cadets.....

1650 compression release
 

so I'm working on some hard start issues on my 1650. i remember during rebuild 2 springs and some levers on the cam for the compression release. thats about as much as a know about it. how do i test if my compression release is working on my engine? if it is not working what can i do to check things out while the motor is in the tractor?

I'm moving this to your other thread. No need to start a new one and have info in two places.


Take the spark plug out, roll the motor up to TDC on the compression stroke. Take a rubber tipped air hose and put up to the plug hole and lightly blow into it. Should hear air coming out the exhaust. If so, it's working. If not, roll the motor back just a few degrees and check again. Make sure it is on the COMPRESSION stroke. Otherwise, both valves will be open.

If you don't have air movement, then remove the cam cover plate. The compression mechanism will be apparent. Consult the service manual.... it covers this stuff.


Did you remove and clean the grounds as suggested?? It sounds to me like you had a ground issue as sometimes it will crank and others not.

J-mech, thanks for the move. Wasn't for sure on where to put it. I haven't had time to dig into the grounds yet. Just going over things in my mind so when I can get into it I can dive right in. It always cranks when I turn the key. Sometimes it seems to turn nice and fast and start. Sometimes it cranks over and seems to hit a wall and not want to turn over anymore. When it gets to the hard part I can sometimes cycle the key a couple times and it will crank over again. This is why I'm thinking the engine may be building compression. Guess I'll have to brush up on how to find top dead center and check my tappet clearance too while I'm at it

Checking valve adjustment is not a bad idea.... but according to you, this is a low hour engine. Unless you doubt your abilities, the valves had better still be in adjustment. CHECK THE GROUND. Don't get all hyped up, and study every single possible cause. It's not difficult to figure this out.

so i cleaned all of the grounds and it is starting like a raped ape. its had a handful of cold and hot starts and no issues. thanks for everyone keeping me on track to check the ground system out. i do see a dedicated ground wire to the starter when i come back in half a year. I'm going to try and get a yard trim in before i head out just to try everything out.

Good to hear ( read ) your Quiet Line starts! You may already know this tid bit, but on these models, I have added another ground cable from the right-top engine tin, I think its to the bearing plate, to the fire wall mount. More so between the tractor's frame and actual fire wall. This works so well, I can start my 1450 with out the main ground cable routed from the starter to the right front of the tractor frame!!!

The Quiet Line is a great garden tractor, and rightfully has it's place in the IH line up!

Have a good evening,- all!!

:IH Trusted Hand:

Well I am in a bit of a pickle now. I'm now deployed in Qatar and the cub is having problems again. It sounds like it is doing the same thing it did before through video. I'm going to see if she can take some jumper cables and jump the battery to the engine and try that. She did say the ground wire was real warm when I told her to try and wiggle the cables. Before I just took all the connections apart and cleaned wire wheeled and tapped holes. I put diametric compound on everything when reapplying. All I can think of is the cables themselves are corroded inside or have bad terminal connections. The ones at the battery is suspected good cause I soldered new terminals on them. If it's he ground again I would like to do a strait shot to the engine from the battery and ground the chassis separate. Just gonna be a bit involved for my wife to deal with finding wires and wrenching w 2 babies. She is very handy with tools though. What suggestions do y'all have. Anyone know off hand how long of a cable I would need for certain to get from the battery to the starter and have it ran nice?

This is Machinehead's wife. It is night in Qatar and I am trying to diagnose why I can't get it to start. I tried jumping the battery with jumper cables as per Kevin's instructions this morning with no luck. He wanted me to go ahead and run the new battery cable from the battery to starter, which I did. I applied new diametric compound to the electrical connections and made sure everything was good and tight. There doesn't appear to be any corrosion at all. Which isn't surprising since I have only mowed with it twice since my husband cleaned everything before he left in January. What do I do now? The battery is charged. It won't turn over at all not even intermittently.

You ran a wire from the negative battery terminal to a bolt holding the starter to the motor, not the stud that already had a battery cable on it, correct? As long as there is bare metal on the housing of the starter where you mounted the wire, that should solve your ground issue.

Are you sitting in the seat, pressing the brake pedal and the pto switch is off? I ask because it has happened to all of us, even the ones that won't admit it. You could try flipping the pto switch on/off a few times, the contacts inside could be dirty and not making contact. That would result in a no start, no click, nothing condition. Same could be true of the brake pedal switch. Otherwise, I'm not sure what else to tell you short getting out a volt meter/test light and troubleshooting.

Bill

this is Kevin again. My wife did an outstanding job of getting the cable ran from the negative terminal to the original ground mount at the starter. She then has the body ground running from it to the grill nose. The starter actually engages when the key is turned. it just kinda makes a wha sound and stops. The engine doesn't actually get a crank out of it. It sounds like what it was doing before I left. Post leaving I cleaned all the battery connections and got a new diehard battery. It had been cranking over great and starting within a second of turning on the switch. Now it sounds the same even with a direct ground. I think I have the original starter that was on the engine. I changed it out about 4 years back cause it was making noises. I believe it was still cranking over the engine though. I may have her try that one out. What other things can yall think of? She checks the oil before each use so it shouldn't be locked up from low oil. Before I cleaned all the ground wires back home, I did try myself to directly jump the starter from the battery and it made the same sound. It did not turn the engine over. So things are acting real funny.

Ok here is what Brystal did today. She changed out the eBay China starter for the original Koehler today ( it was originally changed out because it was making noises but still would start the motor). Once it was changed out it made the same noise. Like the starter would engage but hit a wall and stop. So I had her take out the plug and crank it over. It turned over just fine. She reinstalled the plug and it fired right up. She let it run for a minute or so and stopped it. Everyone full of joy! Then I told her to try it again and the same brick wall. So to me it sounds like it may be up against compression and not being able to muscle through it. The battery is only 2 months old. Ground wire direct to starter. Frame ground direct off starter to grill. All the positive connections were cleaned 2 months ago. 2 months ago I tried jumping both leads direct to the starter and got the same brick wall. I lust wonder if it was a fluke that when I cleaned all the grounds it started working again but had enough rotation in the engine to start. Now sometimes it will be after turning it off its right at the start of the compression stroke and not being able to power through it. I get the general premise of the auto compression release but I do not know how to really test it to see if that is working.

You can take the spark plug out and roll the engine over by hand. You will be looking directly at the exhaust valve. You should be able to see if pop open slightly as it nears the compression stroke, if it is working....

if I remember correctly the plug is not over my exhaust valve. I wouldn't even begin to know how to explain how to get to the compression stroke

1650 plug should be over the exhaust valve, if memory serves.

I know your not there, and that must be frustrating. Maybe there is someone around that can help her??