Rim Guard/ Beet Juice question - not recommended by local dealer
 

Hey Folks, I haven't posted in a while. On my recently inherited 1450 I found a snowplow. I remember my dad mentioning before he never used it because the wheels would just spin... well- turns out I don't think he ever used chains + wheel weights. It hasn't snowed yet in the mid-atlantic yet but I want to try using the tractor this year. I plan on getting Terra Grips to plow/throw my mother's newly paved asphalt driveway.

So upon my research I thought about Rim Guard/Beet Juice which seemed like a great option, as I could add even more weight later if need be. I found the local dealer (carries New Holland, not IH or CC) carries/installs it, so I called asking about pricing, timing etc- service advisor asked what it was going into- after telling him what I had he did not recommend putting in Rim Guard to ballast the rear tires on an older garden tractor as it puts additional strain on the drivetrain.

Instead, he recommended something removable like a weight box (mine does not have a 3 point hitch) or the traditional iron wheel weights - so I can remove it during the spring when I put the mower deck back on. He does have a point about it being removable but I've always thought of these IH Tractors to be tough and easily capable of handling ballasted tires year round.

Either way, he is willing to put in the Beet Juice but I'm now reconsidering putting it in at all and sticking with the traditional iron weights. Thoughts?

He has probably never had any experience with an older garden tractor.. especially an IH built one.. Those rear ends are near bullet proof. We have a 1450 that has run ballasted 10.50 ag tires and weights since 1976. The tractor has been worked hard all it's life.. heavy gardening and mowing... the rear axle has never given any trouble. I'd rather have the weight on the tires and wheels only.. if you hang the weight on the back you are also stressing the axles and bearings..
His reasoning doesn't make much sense to me...

Ballast those tires all you want and don't worry about it!!:beerchug::beerchug:

A modern box store lawnmower with an aluminum transaxle... I wouldn't even think about weight or ballast!:biggrin2::biggrin2:

The dealer is wrong. Load the tires and dont worry. :beerchug:

That's what I thought. Ironically the competing local dealer (where my dad originally bought the tractor from) now carries Kubota but does not do the beet juice. This tractor has lead an easy life (aside from my driving it into a brick wall when I was younger).. only used to mow a flat 2 acre yard. It sat in a garage for 15 some years now mows my 1/4 acre yard. Eventually, I want to put in a patio and garden in my back yard, so that will be the first time it actually works with dirt, another reason for the wheel weights.

Shame on the dealer! I believe it's best for the tractor to have the weight in the tires - to - the ground whether it be liquid or rim weights. Then, if needed, a "counter" weight on the rear of the tractor. I'm still shocked the dealer voiced his opinion on such a simple, time proven subject rather making a sale for the store. What a bunch of dope supporting bull!

I ordered a set of Tru Powers for my 2182 yesterday and our tire dealer is going to mount and fill when with rim guard for me today.

Pound for pound a dealer can make a lot more money selling cast iron weight than rim guard, it's going to cost me $32.50 for 10 gallons of rime guard and 110lbs of cast iron would be several times that much.

I called the other local dealer (a little bit further away), they're a little cheaper per gallon but a little more on the install fee. This one could do it quicker (the other was tied up for 2 weeks) and had no objections on a garden tractor. Both dealers want between $100-$125 for installation (not including the metal valve stems, which I can put in myself). At this point it's basically a wash- figure around $175 for either beet juice + installation or $175 for used weights on ebay/CL/classifieds + shipping.

$.02

Load the tires. Get some wiper fluid and a garden sprayer and do it yourself. I like the loaded tires both summer and winter

Then buy some IH weights. They should be about $100 per set. I heard they fit in a $14 flat rate shipping box . (!!)

For the same money you have both

Run both loaded tires and weights in the winter.

Sounds like your 1st dealer doesn't know the difference between vehicle overload limits when using suitcase weights that hang off a tractor compared with neutral weight mass when putting that same weight as a liquid, into a tire. All vehicles have a gross vehicle weight rating.

Vehicle overload limits is putting weight onto the whole of vehicle where it can't handle the stress and parts break from downward load forces.

Neutral weight mass is putting that same weight such as liquid into tires, wheel weights or both. There's no downward forces that overload the vehicle carrying capacity. The axles/housing/bearings still only see the weight of the tractor as if there's nothing. Thus you get traction without going beyond carry limits.

Adding some extra suitcase weights off the tractor just gives that little extra, if needed, as either traction weight or balance when one end of tractor has an implement attached.

I'd load them with washer fluid, won't weigh as much but it's still plenty and if you can do it yourself it will be less than $30. I run my tires loaded with washer fluid and my cub goes like a tank.

Great idea Mike!

I never thought about doing it that way!:biggrin2:

Around here in South GA we get away running straight water.... but it never freezes here more than a few days a year.. never long enough to freeze a tire.

on my 982 is load and weights 300 lbs per side i haven't had any problems for over ten years. so i say load them. they probability don't wont to have to deal with little tires the small stem make it takes time.

I use an inner tube on any tire that is filled with fluid.

that's exactly what i did. put 8 gallons in each of the tru powers. could have fit more but i wanted some room for air so it didn't ride to hard.

side note:
i dumped the aluminum rear in my 1772 and put in a IH cast iron rear. its been holding up the 550LB backhoe just fine.

I just filled the 10.50 True Powers on the 782 a week ago, and each tire took 7 1/2 gallons of washer fluid, and weighed 100# each. Broke the bead on the valve stem side, and dumped it in. Shot of air, and good to go.:beerchug:
Total cost. $ 19.35:beer2:

Pretty much the same way I do it. :beerchug:

I like the idea of removable wheel weights myself, especially if your just mowing during the warm season. That way, you're not tearing up the lawn with the heavier weight.

Why does everyone think that extra weight tears up lawns? I run loaded tires and sometimes I leave the wheel weights too. It actually tears up the lawn LESS as the tires never slip. When there is no added weight on turf tires they spin so easily that you will "burn" areas with wheel slip. Loaded lugs are easier on the turf. I won't ever go back to non-loaded turfs. No traction, lots of slip.

Agreed... we run loaded and weighted ags on the lawn... no spinning when turning around or changing directions... You can't even tell the tires were on the lawn.. You would think they would destroy the lawn but they don't.. we leave them on year round

It's not always about the freeze. Water with air encourages rust if your running tubeless.


Ditto :ThumbsUp:


You guys do understand that beet juice and CaCl2 are not used for the non-freeze factor, right? No, they won't freeze, but they weigh more than water. Water and washer fluid is around 7lbs per gallon, beet juice/rim guard is about 9lbs and CaCl2 is almost 12lbs/gal. So, with a 6 gallon average per tire, water/washer fluid will give you 42lbs, whereas CaCl2 will give you 72lbs. Believe me, it makes a difference.

I have loaded lugs with 110LB wheel weights on my BX, they don't hurt the lawn at all and stay on year round.

How about filling them with whisky Sam? This stuff doesn't freeze and you can have a drink if it became too cold outside. :biggrin2:

Never mind, must be a Christmas brain fart! :beer2:

Use talcum powder Sam, then when you get IBS in the summer, you can take off the cap and let a little loose on your touche....

Jon

At 12 lbs. per gal your close to the supersaturation point. I doubt that many places sell CaCl2 at that level of saturation. I'd bet more like 10-11 lbs. but it's still heavier than other options.
http://www.osi-univers.org/IMG/pdf/C...Handbook-2.pdf

I just jump in the pool when I get that hot and sticky. :biggrin2:

Oh, I'm sure that is correct. I pulled a quick number off Google. I couldn't remember the exact number. 11 is what I thought it was before the search, but I saw like 11.8. That number musta been high. :beerchug:

Fascinating discussion. According to http://www.rimguard.biz/frequently-asked-questions/ Rim Guard is 10.7-11 lbs per gallon.

I think I will stick with the Rim Guard opposed to the other methods. There is one area on my yard I get some tire spinnage so I'm sure this will help with mowing too! I'm not super worried about the cost for a relatively small quantity - I'm remodeling my basement and the floor adhesive remover I'm using is almost $30 a gallon. I'll likely have the second dealer put it in- not sure if they would just sell the fluid for me to put in myself and everyone's closed til Tuesday. I have a bead breaker and plan on changing the valve stems to metal anyway.

My last 2 questions on this topic:
1) Just double checking but on a RWD tractor it would make no sense in putting in weight for the front tires right?

2) The turf tires are probably the original Goodyears that came on the tractor from the late 70s. They hold air and don't show signs of dry rotting. Any consideration for putting in Rim Guard into such an old tire?

Happy New Year everyone!

Like stated, Merk and I prefer not to put fluid in tubless. Small leaks, bead leaks... it prevents that. That said, tires that hold air will hold fluid. Tubeless with fluid is perfectly fine. If your tires leak air, they'll leak fluid.

No reason to add fluid to the steer tires.

I put tubes in all my tires. Too easy to hit a chuck hole and pop the bead. Tube tires won't pop the bead.

We had this discussion in the past......:beatdeadhorse:

agreed! We run tubes with water also... keeps it from rusting the rim... I knew the calcium chloride was very heavy per gallon.. did not know the beet juice was...

I like tubes too. I just dropped off the new set of 8 ply Firestones to the new Millennial run tire store near my house the other day and they said they couldn't put the tubes in because they were too tight.:angry: They also used ether and that didn't seal the bead so they had to pump them up to 120 psi and they finally sealed. So now I'm stuck with tubeless 8 ply's.:bash2: I won't be going back there either because they charged me $40 to mount 2 tires....welcome to Atlanta.

Funny thing is, I originally mounted these tires on the original SGT rims and couldn't get the second side on so I took it to a different tire store and that dumb*** got 1 rim done and on the other he shoved the tube down in the rim and put a tubeless valve stem in. I won't be going back there either.

What would you guys use in this situation besides find another tire store?:biggrin2:

I mount my own.....:biggrin2:

But seriously. I had to have some tire work done recently, and I wasn't happy with it. Not many options in my area. I made them redo the work, 3 TIMES until they got it right.

Jon, I do too. I will never ever buy 8 ply's again. 4 ply's are easy to do but these were freaking impossible. I laid them out in the blistering Georgia sun hoping they would be more flexible but I was wrong. I bent the crap out of the first set of rims and said a lot of bad words too.:bigeyes:

EricWww,

If you are spinning tires cutting grass, you should look at chains. I run chains all year as my lots are both on steep hills. Chains eliminate any need for fluid, though fluid helps a little pushing snow. But chains are much more effective for traction than 50-100 lbs of extra tire weight.

There's all kinds of bead sealers on the market. I've actually used some in the past when im in a bind but made the decision that I would never try to get them off again, rusty rim surface, bad bead area, etc. Those 8 plys sound awful Todd. And I will admit when the ratchet strap doesn't work for the 4 th attempt its been known to hear some loud noises of ether exploding around my house with the addition of choice words as well. Definite disclaimer however, do not try this at home. :biggrin2:

I've mounted 8 and 10 ply pickup tires and semi tires (14 ply) by hand before. Oh yeah. I feel your pain. Those rims are heavier though, so you can get rougher.... but it still sucks. I remember you talking about mounting those before. Probably don't need 8 ply anyway. If I remember, you got a good deal on those. :bigthink:

Our tire dealer said that with rim guard tires should be mounted tubeless because it acts like a sealer, he is a third generation tire dealer and keeps 4 service trucks busy most of the year doing tractor tire repairs.

But if it's in a tube, it doesn't matter.... because the bead can't leak......

I'm lucky, my tire guy mounts a 26X12-12 for $5.00 and has a special set of grippers for his tire machine so he can even do the little front rims. Maybe 5 minutes for a pair. No charge if I buy the tires from him. :beerchug: