What is the salty mixture that is in my rear tires?
 

Hi,

What is the liquid that is in at least the one rear tire on my 129? Over the years I've corroded more than one air jack trying to add air in the rear tires. Today, though, I tried to add air and noticed that the stem was completely corroded. I managed to drill out most of what was in there, and then drained out most of the liquid. It is HIGHLY salty. Is it at all something to be concerned about as to where it drains? I'm pretty sure my garage has a french drain and hoping that this stuff didn't go into the septic tank. Another question - even though the tire says tubeless I'm pretty sure there is a tube in the one that has the liquid, being that while working on trying to drill out the stem the entire thing moved inwards, behaving much like a stem on a tube. Were tubes used in those instances where people wanted to add this salt mixture? What is the purpose anyway - for additional weight? I'm taking the tire to the garage for repair but probably better warm them about the stuff that is in there. The other rear tire (I think anyway) does not seem to have liquid in it. At least I didn't notice any when replacing the valve stem and adding air.

Thanks for any thoughts or advice.

Keith

Calcium chloride mixed with water is what your talking about.

Were you drinking it?

How do you know it's "salty"?

Had the tube removed at the garage - put in new stem and pumped up to 20 lbs. I see that the owner's manual calls for only 8 lbs in the rear? Should I lower it back down to that? It's possible that there might be leaks, so we'll see now that there is no tube in. I'm pretty sure the other tire has the liquid in also - is there a problem with one tire without and one with? And..yeah..I tasted a very small quantity of it from a cup just to find out. It was pretty nasty..spit it out rather quickly. Not my beverage of choice. Next step is to buy 2 new tires if this one is not holding air. I assume the other side also has a tube in it. I wouldn't think the sodium chloride solution would work well without a tube (?)

Oh my God.....

Is that for him tasting it or not knowing what calcium is?

Tasting it......:bash2:

And some of the questions.... Not knowing what the liquid was is understandable.

Wait- it's not a good idea to just drink a glass of any fluid I come across? Why on earth not?

Lot of questions for sure. Water added for weight to gain traction. It SHOULD have been put in a tube. Some lawn mower guys don't because they think it doesn't matter. I've never heard of a farmer that didn't use a tube when adding liquid ballast. Most farmers use anti-freeze now, it doesn't take a whole lot. The old calcium chloride crap was good for rusting rims. Even if you had a tube and punctured it, the moisture could cause a lot of rust. Not uncommon to see old farm tractors with rusted out rims. I just had a big one repaired because of rust. Lawn mower guys often use windshield washer fluid instead of anti-freeze. It may be because its cheap, maybe its safer in case the tire gets punctured and it leaks out in their yard/driveway/garage---I have no idea. If you aren't putting heavy strain on the tires (plowing, grading etc) then you can always just put in tubes and keep running the tires if they have a slow leak. Most of the mowers here have old and weathered tires--and they get tubes if they go flat providing they aren't coming apart. We run about 12lbs in the rears.

Dude, for heavens sake don't go around tasting unknown chemicals--that's all I am going to say about that.

Sorry but I feel a bit insulted. I thought this was the place to freely ask questions rather than be hesitant to ask them for fear of appearing ignorant and then being called out for it. I am not a cub cadet aficionado let alone well versed in all things mechanical - as is readily apparent from the history of my posts and some of my (apparently) "oh my god" questions. Did you ever hear the old adage...'the only stupid question is the one not asked'? I do not mean to offend but my training in preparation to be a public school educator taught me that you never try to put down or make anyone feel stupid for asking any question. I should have never mentioned anything about tasting..THAT was stupid....both to do and report. It's not like I drank or swallowed any of it though.

Yet another somewhat deriding reply. How come?

Thanks so much for all that information. There is alot of rust right around the valve stem on both rims. I don't anticipate adding any additional liquid to the tire that just had the tube removed. I can't imagine that there will be that discernible a difference in traction when plowing snow without the extra liquid in the tire. And if there is I could always add tire weights.

I know some really good mechanics that tell what's leaking in a vehicle by tasting the fluid that's dripping. I worked with some when I was in high school. I had a drip in the garage recently and the first thing I did was taste it. Didn't taste like any vehicle fluid I ever came across. Not oil, not transmission fluid, not coolant, not brake fluid, not front or rear differentials or 4wd transfer case. Found out it was the power steering cooler rusted out and was leaking. First time I ever tried power steering fluid....very bitter. Don't knock it until you try it.

well it is the internet so.... :popcorn:

Now now Jon...be nice........ :biggrin2:

You will notice the absence of weight in the empty tire, it will be spinning/slipping.
If it were me, I'd have installed a new tube and pumped the chloride back in or a antifreeze solution of your choice.
All of my farm tractors have cloride in them with tubes.
Approx 11-12 # per gallon,
and we are talking 75-100++ gallons each in the rears.
When they develop a leak, the problem is addressed and taken care of promptly.

Well today there are simple, safe ways to get an idea of whats in a solution. Considering that the old school farmers had access to some real freaky stuff I would consider other forms of research. Or just dump the stuff out and not worry what it was...
That said when physicians first started doing urinalysis they actually smelled and tasted their patients urine to determine their patients health... again we have better ways, thankfully. FYI, there many many bad chemicals that could cause great harm even without ingesting the solution, our mouths are full of blood vessels that could easily soak up whatever one put in ones mouth. Also note i just took my human physiology final exam and have yet to turn the nerd off...sorry

Well I'm way too south to know anything about plowing snow, but with a front mounted implement you are going to lose traction on the rear. Add in driving on ice and pushing and you will probably find yourself slipping a bit. Now if you are a great big guy weighing in at 300lbs, well probably won't notice it much. I had the tires off my 1811 a couple weeks ago and weighed them for the fun of it--they weigh 95lbs each with water in them. You may want to be prepared to add weight to the rear somehow.

Slight surface rust probably isn't that big of an ordeal, did the tire shop comment on what the inside of the rim looked like? If they saw considerable rust inside, then ideally you want to pull the tires, paint the rims, and remount them after you give them a few days to cure. Considering you are plowing snow, I'd wait till early spring to do it.

George, do you guys run straight Calcium chloride solution or is it a mix of some sort? As far back as I can remember we've been using antifreeze (at least the early 80's). I think everyone around here got ticked at having to replace rims. We were given a DC Case tractor once that had been sitting for a long time inside a building, 1/2 way up a steep hill. We had to drag it down the hill so it could be loaded. About time it cleared the door one of the rims literally ripped in 1/2 where the calcium chloride had eaten it away. We got it down the hill, but it was a little hair raising!

Oh I've heard of it, I just don't recommend it. Same goes for smelling unknown liquids. We were taught 30 years ago in school to waft the fumes, not to stick you nose in the jug and inhale. I was reminded of that lesson a few years back--the hard way!:biggrin2:

are you running 23x10.50's or 8.50s? Turf or ag? Chains will help traction a good bit with plowing but having weight(s) is almost a must. Id certainly repair or replace the rims. I have a fair amount laying around in good shape if needed

Calcium chloride really takes its toll on rims when not in tubes. Beet juice or windshield washing fluid would be better. There are a lot of other options out there for weights. I'm not so sure I would be tasting anything that I did not know what was in it, just not a safe thing to do. For the Red Green fans, I cannot help but thing of Rothschild Sewage and Septic Sucking Service who would be warning you against it.....and chuckle. I have a set of bars on my 129 that bolt to the lugs of the rears. I stack 10 lbs weights on them and add an extra 160 lbs. to the rear for traction, there are weight boxes, etc.....Several other alternatives to explore.

Choose whichever weight option works best for you and your application!

Cub Cadet 123

I hear Mr. Clean is good for loading tires but I would not taste it as he comes in a bottle.:biggrin2:

Thanks for additional replies. I could kick myself in the butt for trying to add some air to the tires. The right one is fine and still has liquid in it - I was able to add a new valve stem to that one. I didn't realize the tires are supposed to be kept at that low an inflation level and so I would not have needed to do anything. One problem quickly led to another. The remounted tire that my garage mechanic put on for me is not holding air so I'm really wondering if I should just go with putting a tube back in it and done. And then I'm thinking that probably weights would be the best - I really don't care to add liquid back in. Buying new tires to put on the old rims doesn't seem like the best solution since if there are issues with the rim causing the leak, I'll have the same problem only with a new tire.

not sure where your at in Pa but if your near Pittsburgh these look like a great deal.
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/grd/5920952578.html

You miss spelled one of your words :biggrin2:

To OP, I know a guy that taste tested a "fluid" by the floor drain in the fire station. He soon learned that the chief pissed on the floor 2 minutes before. Iirc, he commented about saltiness too :ROTF1: Welcome to OCC!

I don't understand why you seem to be so much against loaded tires.

I think the only tires I have that don't get loaded are the ones on tiller tractors and the ones on my Originals (I do have one tractor on grass duty that I haven't got loaded yet, can't keep it from spinning in certain areas of the yard). Nearly all the turf tires have chains as well and anything on snow duty also gets weights added.

To each their own.

I also put tubes in any tire that I load.

You can add air to tires that have liquid in them. Just stop the wheel with the valve stem at the top. Personally I would never put fluid of any kind in a tire that does not have a tube in it. The tube keeps the rim from swimming in the fluid.

Just FYI:
You guys who talk about loaded tires not in tubes and how bad it is..... apparently haven't been around farm equipment for over 20 years, or are only familiar with older tires. They have been using CaCl2 in tubeless tires for years. Only time it rots the rim is where it's exposed to outside air, as in a leak at the valve stem. Which is also the place that a tubed tire always rots the rim, because the stem or tube leaks. It's very, very common for tractors to have tubeless tires with fluid, and I've seen no worse effects to the rim than with a tubed tire. I've said this a million times on this topic and I'll say it again: They only rot if there's a leak.

My opinion:
Like YosemiteSam, I like loaded tires and have a whole drum of CaCL2 for loading them. I prefer to use tubes. Why? Personally I'm afraid the rim will leak at the bead. I'm confident that it would be fine, but for $13 for a tube with a metal bolt in stem, it makes me feel better. Besides... if I ever want to replace the tire with a new or different one, it's a lot cleaner when there is a tube. You pump the fluid out, and dismount the tire, pulling the remaining fluid out in the tube. If not tubed, you can't get all the fluid out, and have to deal with the mess when you break it down.

To answer your question, Calcium Chloride comes in a bag, it is flakes.
It is usually mixed 11-12 pounds per gallon of water, it dissolves in it just like salt would.
so a 8.3 pound gallon of water, becomes 12 pounds.

Chloride is also used on roads in summer time to control dust in rural areas.

As John said, it can be used in untubed rims and often is, I personally, tube them.

I purchased two 1200x16 loaded rib tires on rims from a scrap yard for $10 as they didn't want to deal with them, containing chloride.
They were not new, but not worn much by any means.
After maybe 5-7 years of usage one valve stem began leaking, and the other tire had a minor seepage in the sidewall of chloride solution
I Decided to correct the situation by pumping the chloride out and found that neither rim was damaged inside other than very minor surface rust in a few places but mostly the paint was intact or just missing but not corroded, and minor rust where the bolt-in core was located on the outside.
I cleaned them up with a needle scaler and rotary wire brush.
Also washing the rims with baking soda and dish soap.
After drying in the hot sun for a day, I painted them.
a few weeks later I remounted the tires ( they were cleaned inside also)
installing tubes, and pumped the chloride back in adding additional to fill to the core @ the 12 o'clock position.
I have had "0" problems with them and don't expect any as is my other "tiring" repairs:beerchug:

I apologize for being so flippant; it just seemed like such an obvious bad idea. My grandpa has always tested fluids that way and is likely currently dying from it. They're not 100% that's what the toxicity is from, but they can't figure out what else it would be that is doing this to him.
I also saw a man die once from breathing in something he shouldn't have-turned out to be anhydrous ammonia. I knew you shouldn't inhale that stuff, but I had no idea how fast it'll drop a guy. I worked in the oil industry for a time, and they'd tell stories of guys trying to save one another and just dropping like flies one by one. Needless to say, I'm very concerned about putting things in me I don't understand.

Learned something! Never knew they were putting it in ag tires with no tubes. As for me, I'll stick with tubes in all our stuff, like has been mentioned, somewhat of a convenience, as well as added insurance if there any areas of bad paint inside the rim.

John, it is a double edged sword.
If you go tubeless there is a small chance it will eat the rims.
if you tube them, the chloride stays in the tube.
Real life dictates otherwise tho'.
Say a tire picks up a puncture,deep enough to get the tube that is loaded.
A lot of times it is a small one and it goes unnoticed and the corrosion begins between the tube and tire, after time the rim is destroyed, but it does take years.
Also the brass cores eat up no matter what, and need replaced periodically.
but they go unnoticed especially if the cap is tight.
Then you go to air up a low tire and you have a mess to contend with.
After you get the core out and replaced it or replace the 2 piece stem/core and air it up, you have gotten Chloride into the rim around the stem hole, and the corrosion has started.
A lot of farmers do not do their own tire work, they call the tire service people and a kid comes out, pumps out the tire, replaces the tube and refills it with Chloride.
The rim remains untouched to continue to corrode.
They mostly do not take the rim off the tractor, just break the beads and remove the outside of the tire, replace the tube and refill.
I have always done my own tires and will continue to do so, till I no longer am physically able.
That way I can address issues properly.
I am not a full time farmer so I can do this,the full time fellows cannot, unless it is the off season.
Hope this helps explain it.

Once I came along, the tractors (tires) were too big for us to change (fortunately). But a neighbor was a Safemark dealer so we just called them whenever we had a flat rear. He used a PTO pump to remove the fluid and then hand broke the tires---the guy that did the work was one of the biggest men I ever knew. Anyway, that's all history now. Fast forward to this fall, noticed a wet streak on a tire on the 4020 once we got through baling one afternoon. I had to call in someone new. Their tire tech had the tire off the rim in well under an hour dad said--including pumping fluid out. Then he had to pull the rim and take it to a weld shop to have the hole repaired--rusted out pretty bad. I think they had it fixed by the next afternoon. Cost me a little over $500, not too bad considering it was 2 trips here, 2 trips to the weld shop, and a new tube and anti-freeze. Besides, what else was I supposed to do, I work full time so I can come home and play farmer. :biggrin2:We've been watching that rust spot on the rim for 20 years. I imagine all the rust began 30-40 years ago from leaking tires, flats that weren't completely dried out, etc.

I guess my question now, why use calcium chloride? Around here they use very little anti-freeze in tires, so any cost savings would not be worth the corrosion risk/headache? Only thing I can figure is the northern climates need so much more anti-freeze.

To keep this thread Cadet friendly, I saved some antifreeze I drained from a tractor engine a while back. I plan on putting tubes in my 2072 and diluting the solution with water. Hopefully this will eliminate all the spinning that machine is prone too. My kid got so ticked off at it one day he parked it and went and got the 128. That's my boy, when all else fails go old school!

The Chloride is heavy and it is needed in the wintertime in the north.
A lot of farmers are going beet juice, it stinks and is pricy a bit, but no corrosion.

I use drained antifreeze from equipment or Windshield fluid in the cubs.
sometimes mix it if I don't have enough of either.
My theory is some antifreeze mixed with WWfluid should help stop the corrosion that WWfluid causes

Dad has fluid (calcium) filled wheels on his Farmall H for years w/ no problems of corrosion. One time he parked it with the valve stem down and us kids were messing around near it and busted the stem off. I was sprayed with salt water (so not by choice I know what it tastes like haha) It kept coming out so bad that mom called Dad at work and was freaking out cuz she didn't know how to stop it. I stuck a screwdriver in it and fixed that till he got home and put in a new valve stem. I think I was like 12.

If you had to guess, how much antifreeze would tire shops use in tractor rears in your area, in something like whats on a 4020. I think it was 3 gallons they put in ours--seems lacking to me but I was assured it was enough.

does this help?

http://www.messicks.com/blog/liquid-tire-ballast-chart

I'm thinking more of a freeze factor than weight.