I'm looking at buying a 127, thoughts?
 

I have an 800 foot long driveway and while we don't get a ton of snow we do get enough that needs to be removed in order for us to drive up and down the driveway. I had an old MTD garden tractor with a snowblower attachment that worked fine for the past few winters but the motor went belly up and I ended up selling the set up. I'm now looking for a replacement, I was thinking a John Deere 318 would be nice though a bit pricey, or an older Craftsman GT would be okay.

But then I ran across an ad for a Cub Cadet 127 and I don't know very much about these. I know it was made between 1969 and 1971, that's about it. The garden tractor appears to be in good condition (from the photos) but there is rust. There is a big black box to the right of the steering wheel mounted on the side of the tractor, I have no idea what this is for. It comes with summer tires, winter tires with chains, a rototiller with spare parts, a snow blade, a snowblower attachment and the mowing deck. He's pretty firm at $1200 but that does include delivery (I don't have a trailer so that works well for me).

I'm wondering if this is a reasonable deal. The seller won't be able to show it to me until 6pm. Is there anything I should be looking for with these units? Red flags that might indicate that I should pass? Tests I should do? I'm not necessarily interested in the plow and I have no need for the tiller but would like to make sure the snowblower attachment works. Are they difficult to attach and remove? If he won't let me attach it to see that it is working is there another way I can see that it works or should I walk?

Sorry for so many questions, thank you guys for your help,

David

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I forgot to ask, there are no wheel weights included with this sale, are they hard to find? Necessary? Any other way to add weights to the rear when snowblowing?

I was looking at a parts web site and noticed that it appears most parts have been discontinued. Is that going to be an issue in owning one of these older units?

Thanks again.

Positives I see on it are electric lift, sleeve hitch with a gearbox for tiller, good ag tires and snow blade. It doesn't have headlights and paint isn't the best. No way is it worth 1200. I've had several 127s and like them a lot but 500-600 is more realistic, maybe a little more if engine was just rebuilt. Yeah wheel weights make a big difference, that or loading the tires

Agree with above except Black box looks to be an aftermarket hydraulic lift setup as I see the hydraulic cylinder. OE hydraulic lift is a pump in the same location that runs off a belt, this one looks like a similar design. If you're mechanically inclined and can tinker with things like this then we all recommend an old cub, but not for that price.

And no worries about parts, there are so many avenues to buy parts on this site and others there's pretty much any part you will ever need that is available.

Wheel weights are also available and if you place an ad in the wanted section for some here you'll have plenty to choose from. Ask the seller if the winter tires are "loaded" or not as they might be filled already

Thanks Alvy and RMOWL. It seems everything here in Eastern Washington is overpriced when it comes to used garden tractors, especially if they have any implements. They don't come around that often and when they do they're expensive. I just sold my 1992 MTD garden tractor with a snow blower attachment and blown engine for $600. I know $1200 is high for this 127, he just listed it and won't budge a penny. I'm still going to go look at it this evening but I'll wait and see if he lowers his price in the next couple of weeks.

I've got a 127 and love it. Great machine and really easy to work on. I think his $1200 is a pretty fair price, considering what all it comes with. You figure $600 for the tractor (with mower), $200 for the tiller, $100 for the blade, and $200 for the snow thrower, you're sitting at $1100. Plus the extra wheels and delivery. He's in the right ballpark anyway. You won't get him down much if you wait, but you might.

Seems like lights would be the only thing you may want to add to the tractor if you get it. You can find them for sale in different random places. As a matter of fact, I think some are for sale on this site in the For Sale section.

You'll definitely want to drive it around and check the alignment of the hydro control lever and the steering. The hydro can be adjusted if it's a little out of whack but the steering might have to have pieces replaced if there's a lot of play in it. Most everything for that is still available though. You'll want to make sure the PTO holds strong. For that you might have to mount up the mower and run it through tall grass or get him to mount the tiller and drop in down in some dirt. Those can be rebuilt too as the pieces are still available.

Those are the big things to look at. You might also ask him about that add-on hydraulic lift. If he installed it or if it was there when he got it. That's not a Cub Cadet lift, so you'll want to find out all you can about it. As far as the tractor and implements, all the manuals are available in the tech section on this site so you'll have access to those if/when you need to do work on it.

Hope this helps. Good luck! And welcome to the site! :beerchug:

The black box is a Monarch Hydraulics "Dyna-Chute" 12vdc hyd. unit.
Not belt drive off engine. Uses a conventional automotive starter motor to power the pump.
The unit was originally made to operate the chute swing on a cement trucks. But is sold for whatever use it can handle.

I see a lot of 127's in the same cosmetic condition as this one for anywhere from $250 to $500 from the plain states and east.
Snow plow $100, tiller from $100 to $500 depending on model and condition.
Snow thrower from $200 to $400 depending on model and condition.
The power unit is likely a $350 to $500 unit.
So add all that up and add west coast premium pricing............................

So I noticed that the Electric Lift switch is missing on the dash leaving an empty space. Is that missing because of the Dyna Lift being added to the tractor?

I will be sure to look for headlights if I purchase this tractor. Last winter I ended up snowblowing in the dark at times.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the responses. I'm looking forward to checking it out. I forgot to mention, he said he is also including a lawn sweeper and a few other things. Not sure what that means. Every time I hesitate on buying what I find it seems to be gone the next day, so as long as its running good, idles good and the steering and PTO check out I'll probably go ahead and buy it. I do like that there is a web site like this with a good amount of support from other owners. I'm mechanically inclined so I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty.

I'm hoping that he'll put the snowblower on for me so I can make sure that works. I haven't yet decided I'll keep some of the attachments such as the tiller and sweeper, if I decide to sell those at least I know where to advertise it!

1200? NO way. 127s are solid tractors and will work well in the snow but not for that much coin. I'm also not a fan of the mailbox on the right side.

PS moving snow in the dark with lights is FUN.

Prices here in the PNW are higher than other for some reason. A 124 with deck and plow recently sold for $1000. There is a John Deere 110 with snowblower advertised at $1200, and a JD 245 with snowblower advertised at $2700, and a JD 318 with plow, tiller and snowblower that just sold for $3000. All much higher than other places east of here. I keep telling myself that the prices are too high but then they keep selling.....

Is it possible or even cost effective to take off the Monarch dyna lift and put the electric lift back in place? While I agree that the black box is distracting from the tractor, if it works is there any reason I should be cautious of having it?

David

I don't have the electric lift or hydraulic lift on any of my narrow frame tractors (a 127 and previous series are a narrow frame as the subsequent series were wide frames to handle the new larger engine sizes) but I've been told the electric lifts aren't the best for things like pushing snow and running a tiller. They aren't as strong as a hydro lift and they work kind of slow. I would say if the current setup works, keep it, until maybe you could find a Cub Cadet hydraulic lift for it.

Oh, and thank you for the service you provided to this country!!

Well then, I'm hoping this aftermarket hydraulic lift works good.

So I have a list of things to check out including looking for leaks, listening to how the engine runs at idle and full throttle, checking the steering, making sure the PTO works and stays engaged, making sure the lift works. Anything else?

Oh, and you're welcome!

Odd. When I talked to the seller last night he said he had a a few acres and a long driveway and this 127 worked great for him. I asked why he was selling it and he said he bought a new Husqvarna riding mower and said he hated it because it wasn't built like a tank, like the 127. Makes me wonder, if he doesn't like his Husqvarna as much as he likes the 127 then why isn't he selling the Husqvarna? Could this be an indication that something might be wrong with the 127 and why he bought a new mower? Or am I just reading into it too much. I feel better buying new but for something like this I just can't afford the price of new. I don't mind getting my hands dirty and doing what I have to keep things working but buying a problem tractor to begin with is something I would prefer to avoid.

I'll post on here later tonight after I see the tractor.

Maybe he is getting older and has decided he only needs a mower only machine.
No longer does a garden or clearing the snow, etc.

I see yellow engine so it likely is the original versus a newer replacement.
Unless what we can see as yellow is only the shrouds and sheet metal on a black (replacement) engine.
It also looks like a black front axle. Which might indicate a new replacement due to center pivot pin wear or spindle pins wearing out the old axle.
Might want to jack up the front end and wiggle things to see if the slop is gone. Doing that will also let you inspect how much slop there is in the steering via turning the steering wheel.

What ever you decide we got your back as far as solutions/advice.
ain't nothing the fellows here have not fixed/improved.
They are good old solid tractors and worth keeping running and still will out last today's throwaway's.
And if you do buy, don't get that feeling in your stomach if/when something presents it's self you are not familiar with.
Every day something is on ebay as well as other suppliers for parts.
You might be surprised @ the accessories you think you don't need till you use them :beerchug:
I think the lift will shy some away, so you might get him to do a little wiggling on the price
good luck either way.

Actually, you could pick up an OEM hydraulic unit and sell off the Monarch.
Might even get more for the Monarch than what you could find a OEM hyd. unit for.

Looks like the Monarch is mounted on a 2x8 hunk of lumber.

It comes with a LOT of stuff--keep that in mind. From what I see here (OCC forum) the north east tends to have the nicest Cadets, more plentiful, easy to find attachments, etc. Keep that in mind when asking prices here. Here in the South, anything besides a mower deck is a tad unusual (at least my part of the world). We occasionaly find rear lifts, and garden implements, but you have to be willing to hunt for them, they are not common. My point in all this is to check (as it appears you have) what comparable equipment in your neck of the woods is selling for. Look for other Cadets as well as Deere's and Wheel Horse of that vintage and see what they are selling for. Now find a more modern but still heavy duty machine such as this and see what is it selling for. Is the price inflated because because the Cadet is a collectible antique?

Most anything you need for the mower is available either through Cadet or a host of other internet based suppliers. Glad someone knows what the hydraulic setup is. A purist will not like it, however, if it has been setup and installed properly and the guy has been running it for many years, then it must get the job done.
You mentioned weights---add fluid to the tires, bolt anything heavy (old barbell weights etc) to the rims---sounds like you want it to be a workhorse, not a trailer queen. Also consider do you weigh 125 or 350---that alone makes a huge difference.

Thanks guys, you all are awesome and knowing there is support out there if I need it makes it nice.

Is there a way to tell if the engine is an original or a replacement? I'm gathering that if the engine is yellow it most likely is the original. But can I check serial numbers or any other way? I'm not opposed to an original or a replacement, I'm only curious. Same with the axle. And I'll see if he'll let me jack it up to wiggle it.

I've been enjoying reading the message board and watching youtube videos but I really should be out in the shop finishing up a woodworking project. Maybe I'll just read a little more.....

I do not think there is a "matching numbers" thing between engine and chassis like muscle cars, etc.
But there are members here that can tell you if the engine serial number is from the era of your machine.

I also noticed he has a bolt in the mule drive up high towards the front. Some guys put that bolt in and some do not.
It is no big deal, but check and/or ask if the "quick attach" connect mechanism for the mule drive is functional or not working

What is the mule drive? I would like to see it in the picture before I go look at it in a few hours, that way I know what to point out and ask. What is the quick attach connect mechanism for the mule drive used for? Thanks again.

The mile drive is what they call the frame that the mower hangs from.
Thank you for your service.
Best, Andy

So I'm back from looking that this 127, and I ended up not buying it. Here's what I noticed;

The Monarch hydraulic lift works great and is probably overkill for this tractor. The seller does have the original hydraulic lift system, it just needs two new gears. There was a lot more rust throughout than what can be seen in the photos.

Before starting the tractor I opened the hood and immediately could smell a burnt odor, hard to tell if it was oil but it was a bit foul, a bit burnt. Mostly coming from around the exhaust. Might have been a bit of fuel in that odor. It just didn't smell right. The oil was black but didn't smell burnt.

Before starting the seller said he needed to open the fuel valve. He said if it is left open while the engine is off it will flood the carb. The engine was really slow to start, maybe a week battery? It appeared to run good with higher rpms and even at moderately low rpm's. But at low, or what I would call idle, the engine would die. The seller said this was normal for these old Cub Cadets. PTO engaged and held.

There was a lot of slop in the steering. With the tractor sitting still I could turn the steering wheel an easy 90 degrees in either direction (180 degrees or more of turn). The seller said this was normal.

The tires were very well weathered, a bit dry, almost porous looking. The seat was well weathered and almost powdery in a way.

The snowblower was all beat up with bent edges on the auger. The seller said it didn't work very well so he just used the plow. The plow appeared to be in good condition. The tiller appeared to be in good condition. The lawn sweeper looked okay as well.

There were a few other quirks, and I didn't get that warm fuzzy feeling so I decided to pass. I didn't think it was worth $1200, at least not to me. I do appreciate everyone's help, now I'm just going to keep my eye out for another Cub Cadet, hopefully one in a bit better shape.

Sounds like you made a good assessment. $1200 will more than likely find you a good number of Cubs. Warm and fuzzy is almost a sure sign and when you don't get it, that's also a good sign. Good job noticing the shape of the implements. Those would have been the main reasons that the price was high.
Good luck with your search.
Yes, i have a 127 as well and just mowed with it yesterday. I didn't pay any thing close to $1200 for it a few years back.

A thought:

There are various shipping services that members have used. I have used Uship I think, and I saw a forum section on one of the websites to post shipping needs.

So for $1200 you might be able to afford shipping, which would expand your search to a much larger geography and choice of selection.

In my neck of the woods that's a 250-350 dollar tractor all day long.

Well, in my part of the country a tractor, tiller, blade and snowblower with 2 sets of tires would be worth $1200.

Go price something new with all those options. Can't even buy a crappy mower for $1200 any more.

Randy

Welcome to OCC.

$1200.00 Does sound kinda high, but there is a lot of good stuff there.

If you didn't feel good about it, then you probably did the right thing.

I believe there are Fastenal stores in Washington. I personally have never shipped anything through them, but many members here have said their shipping prices are great.

That said, you could possibly find a pretty nice Cub Cadet with a front blade (and/or other attachments) from many locations in the US, and have it shipped for a great deal less than $1200.00

We here may be a little biased, but I think everyone will agree that a good old Cub Cadet is just the thing you need for moving snow (and many other lawn and garden jobs). There just aren't any tougher machines out there.

While there are a few parts that are harder to find than others, most of the parts needed to repair/rebuild nearly anything on a Cub Cadet that wears out are available.

Try putting an ad in the wanted section here on OCC and see what happens. Be sure to include in your ad that you need the tractor shipped to your area.

Good Luck

You got a great deal when you sold the MTD. I doubt most of us here on the OCC forum would flip out 6 bills for a blown motor. That's crazy! Maybe being up 6 isn't gonna make that 12 look so bad.