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882 Diesel: Hydro & PTO issues
I hope I am following good OCC forum etiquette. I thought I would initiate a fresh topic about getting my "new" 882 put into service.
It is now starting fairly reliably. Any issues I have with hard starts now can be put down to the fact that the throttle cable was broken from the beginning, and I am still learning how to properly time the glow plugs. With a new cable and a bit more use, I think it will be a reliable machine. The main roadblock now is that after a brief tour around the circle drive, she stopped moving. Prior to that, it wouldn't budge until the very last 10% of the control lever throw, then it would lurch ahead. Also, the hydraulic lift was moving very, very slow. Since then, both reverse motion and hydraulics have quit completely. Every now and then I can get it to take off forward, but after 10 feet or so it quits. I did not have access to a new trans filter until today, but when I removed the old one last night I noticed clumps of gelled fluid around the fluid exit openings. That can't be beneficial to proper hydro operation. I pulled both top valves and they look to be in great condition externally. I sprayed some cleaner and compressed air through and the balls seem to move freely. I understand the inner o-rings could be bad. So, after a new filter and fluid top off, I hope this is a non-issue by this evening. Your thoughts? The other pressing issue is that the PTO won't stay running. I pull the switch out and up, and it immediately and quietly engages. However, as soon as I let go of the switch it quits. I have tried unplugging the seat switch and clicking the reverse switch. I haven't tried with the reverse switch unplugged, because I noticed that wen it was unplugged, the circuit breaker was not a happy camper and kept tripping. Last and most importantly, I am still not trusting the cooling system. I removed the water pump, and it has no shaft play and rotates freely. Corrosion was minimal to none at all. I blew air and forced fresh water through the various hose openings, but no blobs or gook came out. In fact, the only thing that flushed out was a small bit of rusty water. After I run it for a minute or so, the upper radiator hose gets warm, as does the radiator. However, the lower rad hose is stone cold. Seems like it would be just a little warm, right? Thanks for all your great advice, we'll get this thing back to work. |
Rereading my post after a fresh look at the 882's wiring diagram, I clearly do not understand how the seat and reverse cut-off switches work. Seems to me now that unplugging the seat switch does nothing. I think I should just take a long jumper wire from the pto switch itself, directly to the relay.
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You may need to check the glowpugs seperatly. I have found that the normal resistence per glow plug is around 1 ohm, a range of .7 to about 1.2 should be normal. If these have a metal strap connecting them together the strap will have to be removed to check them. You may have 1 or 2 plugs bad. If the GP shows no reading it is bad. On the water problem, most Diesels take a bit longer to warm up. At idle they don't use much fuel and are burning more air. As you speed them up you are increasing the fuel only. |
The lower hose probably isn't warm because the thermostat isn't opening.
You DESPERATELY need to do a Hytran and filter change. Get a new CC filter and 7 quarts of Hytran, drain the rear, take off the rear cover, and clean all the crap out. You probably have a plugged filter, and you may find it plugs a couple more, even if you clean out the innards of the trans. I had one plug a couple of filters. To fix the PTO problem, clean the connector and terminals on the PTO relay and the PTO switch. My 782D did exactly the same thing, and it was because the relay terminals were corroded. |
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-OR- Doe these Kubota's flow from bottom to top for some odd reason? Quote:
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Thanks Matt |
SaturnV:
1) Make sure the reverse cut-off switch (under the dash by the shift handle) is attached and has a good electrical connection. 2) Lift the seat & disconnect the Seat Switch. Now jump connect the two wires. This bypasses the defective seat switch. The PTO now won't cut off when you get out of the seat, so take care!!! Watch that those toes don't get under the deck if the PTO is on!! Just fixed my 782D which was doing the exact same thing... |
Looking forward to trying these fixes this evening.
The seat is torched, so a faulty switch underneath the dried, cracked foam won't surprise me. :beerchug: |
Maybe your bottom rad hose wasn't warm yet because it wasn't hot enough for the stat to open. If you still have the original plugs in it, i'd replace those they're probably due anyway. Just grab some from napa or kubota if you have to.
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Assuming this Kubota cooling system follows the normal flow of hot coolant out via the upper, then I would think neither the upper hose nor the radiator would heat up much. Both are. I just don't the this little radiator could do such a job that the lower hose would be cool to the touch. I'll be incrementally running it longer and longer, maybe as some have mentioned, the stat just hasn't gotten hot enough to open yet.
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I don't think the thermostat will open if it's just sitting there idling with no load...mine acts the same way.
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Like I said earlier Diesels heat up slower, you have to work them a bit to warm them up.
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Ok, a few more pieces are in place.
I picked up a new trans filter and that immediately did the trick. The drive engages at just the slightest stick movement and continues on up to speed. Reverse is working the same. I only have 1/2 hydraulics as of now though. The deck lift is working great, but the rear 3-point only whines and doesn't budge. I suppose a gel blockage could be responsible for the 3-point not moving. Should I continue to gently work the hydraulic lever in hopes that blockages will be exercised out, or is that a pipe dream? Are there any ports or cleanouts that need to be looked at on the valve control unit itself? Re: the PTO. Works great! I simply completed the seat switch circuit and it stays on just fine. That was a great tip. Re: Cooling system. More great tips from you all. I stopped being a nervous nellie and let the thing run awhile. I think the cooling system is working just fine. When it had run a few minutes the lower rad hose finally started to get warm. Thanks very much for all the helpful advice everyone. I must say, I was pretty stoked to take this bad boy on a tour of the property. It really drives nicely. Compared to my little Troybuilt grass cutter, this thing feels like a Caddy. Nice to have actual headlights too, instead of a couple of glorified flashlight bulbs. With a little work on the deck, I could be mowing with it this week. :) Odds -N- Ends to tie up: • Replace throttle cable (broken off at the dash control lever) • Find a new throttle knob (constantly falling off) • 3-point not moving • Permanently bypass the seat switch • Muffler • Do the glow plug mod Thanks again everyone. |
Did you clean out the inside of the transaxle and put in new fluid, or just change the filter?
If the deck goes up and down but the 3-point doesn't, the 3-point isn't connected. They both use the same cylinder. |
Were you actuating the other hydro lever? That actually belongs to your front ports for something such as hyd angle for a front blade.
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@ Matt G. The fluid is new. I'm treating this batch of fluid and filter as a sacrificial flush-out, because I will replace them again when I get time tonight or tomorrow to spend taking the rear cover off and cleaning house. I won't drive it around any more before I do that. I have to round up a gasket. Does anyone make their own by cutting out of a sheet of gasket material, or does NAPA have a cross-reference? My Cub dealer is not at all convenient to go to.
@ aagitch :o Don't I feel like the perfect noob! Yes, I was in fact trying to work the 3-point by using the front hook-up lever. I knew darn well that it used the same cylinder as the deck. Plus, after having worked the deck hangers up and down I remember now the long arm was fully retracted up into the frame, lol. Chalk it up to being up too late working on it. Wow guys, with that, the major initial hangups are smoothing out. I pulled the belt cover off the 50C deck, and like the tractor (only a bit worse) I think I rescued it from the field in the nick of time. It was damp and full of rust/soil. No rust-through, still feels good and solid. The spindles were really cranky though. I went ahead and shot some grease through them, but at least one or two may be gonners. I think I'm really going to enjoy this little monster. :beerchug: |
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Something you might want to do with the deck is completely disassemble it and clean up/repaint the area under the belt cover. There is a thick stiffener that bolts to the skin, and there's no paint between the stiffener and the skin, so it gets very rusty. You can also beat both the skin and stiffener flat again (they're probably warped) and then clean and paint them to stop further rust. Here's what I'm talking about. After doing this, I found a couple of rust holes that had to be welded up. I didn't think to take an "after" picture:bash2: Oh well, I have 2 more decks I need to go through in the next couple of weeks.
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Yep Matt, that's pretty much what mine looked like under the cover. Thanks for the heads up on the stiffener. I took a paint stir stick after the heavy junk, then I'll give it the ol' power wash tonight. I'll remove the spindles and anything else trapping moisture and paint it up with POR~15.
I'll really have to restrain myself to keep from diving into a full restoration. I like my equipment too look as good as it runs, but I've got to get that Sears Suburban completely done before starting yet another project. Plus, I'd just like to get to use it for awhile. |
One more thing I might add here.
If you have problems starting it, please DO NOT be tempted to use starting fluid on this motor. If you do, you can do some serious damage to the motor, like stretching head bolts, blowing head gaskets, or bending the rods. I looked at a 6.2L Chevy Diesel that had cracked the main bearing webs in the block from to much SF. Also this is a GlowPlug motor, you should never use staring fluid on ANY glowplug motor. You could ignite the fluid in the intake. Another thing I might add as well. The compression on that motor could be VERY high, I have seen Diesels run anywhere from 14:1 to 23.5:1, most common being around 15 to 17:1. So don't expect to turn it over easy by hand. |
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I thought i would let you know i went to the local Cub/Kubota dealer and ordered the throttle cable and knob for my 882 today. Will be here in 3 days along with $250 of other parts. So FYI, they are still available unlike some other things like that top radiator hose. I would also love for you to continue your posts talking about the glow plug mod. I had mine out to compare to a new one at the dealer but they didnt have any instock so i didnt order them just yet. Gonna wait till i have it back together before i spend even more money. Let me know how yours turns out. Thanks Enjoy that beast. Its kind of hard getting used to smelling differant after mowing the yard with diesel and not a gas burner. But i LOVE it!!! :beerchug::beerchug: |
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Anyway, I'll keep updating the 882 progress. You have any photos of your 882? :) @ Amigatec Nossir. As impatient as I can be, I won't even be tempted to shoot starting fluid down the hatch. It's not worth trying. Thanks very much for that warning :beerchug: |
Well no i dont have those links for the glowplugs. I would love to have them. I too love the diesel, i was a mechanic at the CAT dealer in Charlotte for 5 years until times got tough. No pics yet, and believe me, shes not pic worthy. I've got it torn down in the shop right now just trying to get everything on it in great mechanical running shape. New rag joints, new hoses,belts, oil,filters, dash panel, side panels and ill have to tighten up the steering. You can even see where the drive shaft got loose once and GOUGED the heck out of the steering gear box. I can even imagine that ruckus when it happened. But before i tore it down, i was having starting problems...and due to that, i burnt the starter up, so that is the main reason its all apart. PITA getting that starter out but i went with the gear reduction like this site suggested. http://onlycubcadets.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1 Hope it works out good. Should have everything back together by mid next week. Will update and post pics then
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The newer style starter is working great in mine. Much better turnover on the flywheel. You'll love it.
Newer style Kubota part # 15951-65513 (with built-in volt regulation). |
Where is this GP mod listed at?
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I'm not fully versed in the rules here yet, but there is an article on the interweb about it. The name of the website is blocked when I type it.
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I thought I would do one last update under this thread title.
Thanks to you guys, the hydro, PTO and other issues are pretty well handled. I am still having a heckuva time getting it to fire up for the first time each day. After that, no problem at all. I tested each glow plug (pulled from engine) and they are heating up instantly. I suspect this trouble has at least something to do with my broken throttle cable. I have to push the throttle forward by hand, and I'm just kind of guessing where to position it, plus it's difficult to make rapid adjustments while I crank. We'll see if my cable theory holds any water, once the parts arrive. Update: I've started working on the mower deck. I pulled the upper cover off a few days ago, and it was a rusty nightmare. One more year or two in that field and it would have been toast. As it is, I think I can make a nice deck out of it. I opened the upper and lower spindles and pulled out wire, plastic bags, some fishing line and more. The PO must of done some minimum maintenance, because the bearings are in great shape. Got them all back together with new grease and they spin like new. I'm really impressed with how easy it is to mount this big ol' 50c deck up. Really quick on/off. For now, I just want to get it going so I can do some test mowing. Here in the next week or so I will do some more rust removal and get the deck rust treated and ready for some IH white. :) She's really coming together. |
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Yes, decal is still there.
From memory, it says 10 seconds for 86 degrees and up, then from there it goes to 15, 30, and so on. I usually have to give at least 20 to get it going. |
I suspect if your having to guess with the broken cable that it's in the start postion, it may not be getting the required amount of fuel needed. I've been giving mine about 10 to 15 seconds glow plug time with the new stlye glo plugs (no relay mod or starter mod) and it starts almost instantly. Did you say in another post that the fuel lines and filters are replaced? I know that's a must do task to get these to run right if the PO was lazy.
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Did you replace the fuel fliter?
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Yes, I actually completely cleaned out the fuel tank (incl mesh pickup), replaced every bit of fuel line, and put in two new filters. Until I get a throttle cable, I really won't have much of idea how it's going to run for me. It surges more than I'd like, and randomly dies, especially when it's idling at low RPM.
I hooked the deck on this morning and for about the first 10 minutes it mowed like a champ. I was very impressed with the ease it ripped through the thicker stuff. A bit later on, the belts started giving me trouble, eventually causing the engine to die several times. |
Diesel engine will not tolerate any air in the fuel system. If it sucks just a little air, it will be hard to start. They also will not handle water in the fuel.
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I agree with you guys it's really starting to sound like air in the system. There's two places to bleed the air. At the main fuel filter and then bleed at the injector pump. The manual will give you specific instructions how to do it. I had alot of air in mine after I change all the lines.
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Another thing, on Diesel fuel filters when ever I change one I always drain the filter somewhere so I can watch for water and rust in the fuel. Diesel fuel will attract water. And that water can get into the inj pump and cause all sorts of problems.
I have operated an assortment of Heavy Equipment in the past and I could always tell when the filters were getting dirty, normally they have a hard time accelerating, or refuse to go to full throttle. |
to prevent air in the lines use hose clamps that use screws to tighten them down. not just the ones that are opened with a pliers. I know Iam :beatdeadhorse: but a little overkill sometimes doesn't hurt
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Thanks guys, really great advice.
@ol'George That's a good point. I've bled the fuel several times now, but I don't think I have the hang of getting the air out...yet. @Amigatec Yes, the pump is right on the port side of the engine. On the parts lookup, I don't specifically see a gasket, but there is a shim. I know the shims are important to proper fuel delivery. I need to learn more about how to check the timing system. @ aagitch Are you considering the "main" fuel filter to be the first one in line after the fuel tank. The small, disposable one that clamps on? Would you believe that as we are discussing this, I realize it has a large, visible air pocket near the top? Like my hydraulic lever fail, this could be embarrasing.... :o @ austin neuschafer Yessir, all hose clamps are the slotted band style that you can crank down good with a screwdriver. Really great to be a part of this forum. I hope I become knowledgeable enough to help some other Cub folks one of these days. I'll be back tomorrow AM with pics and a report on how it runs without the big air bubble in the filter. :beerchug: |
I don't know about a kobota, but on my
Perkins diesel, I slightly loosen the pressure fitting @ each injector with it running for 15 seconds or so, allowing each of them to purge the air.(Carefull they usually run @ #1500) Some Diesels are more picky than others. This is after I have bled the filters first, following the set procedure. Just a thought, is the clear filter factory install, or something someone added? I'm thinking that has no provision for bleeding/removing air. |
The clear filter is factory. There is a large bleeder valve right on the injector pump. All you have to do is loosen that slightly, and then turn on the fuel pump until fuel comes out of the bleeder.
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Sometimes it can be very hard to find where it is sucking air from. I worked on a Lincoln once that had a BMW Diesel engine in it. (I hope I NEVER see another one again :)) It took me a couple of weeks to find it had a bad o-ring on the fuel filter, the o-ring was hard and it didn't seal good and was allowing air to enter the fuel system.
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