ACR question
 

Been chasing a hard starting problem on my 100 (k241) , I am now checking acr and when I removed the cam plate (guessing to see a spring broke, but they were both there) and trying to figure out how they work when it hit me that the weights are on the wrong side, they are on the front side of the ring gear not on the lobe side. I have never looked at one of these before so can someone confirm that some moron put them on the wrong side or am I the moron cause I yet don't understand how it works. All the pics I found of them on this site show them on the lobe side, and I can not even reason how they would work like they are now. If they are on wrong side is it a matter of taking them off and putting them on other side? Can they be switched by dropping the pan or does the cam have to come out? Attached is a pic but hard to see anything. Thanks clint

Your picture sucks so I am not sure I even understand your question, but here are some pictures of a Kohler cam with ACR. As far as how it works, the little square nub (highlighted in red) holds the exhaust valve open a little bit at cranking speed to relieve compression. When it starts, centrifical force flings that arm out of the way and lets the cam lobe open the valve normally. The spring is there to counter act centrifical force and hold the ACR in until it starts. I don't have a clue how anyone could put any parts on the wrong side of the gear as you are decribing. Hope the pictures help.

I would check the connections on the starting system. File,sand or somehow
clean all of them and try a new battery first. I wouldn't mess with the ACR
unless absolutely necessary

All right here is a better picture, you can see the weights on left side of ring gear ( left would be front of tractor). You can see the lobe on right side of ring gear, which is where I'm guessing the weights should be.

Better pic of right side.

As far as the hard starting goes, I've all ready, set new points (static method),New plug, good charged battery, checked/cleaned grounds, adjusted valves, rebuilt generator/ starter.

I just need to know if this acr system is correct or not right now, thanks clint

Your weights are on the wrong side.

I've never seen that before..... :bigeyes:

Thanks JMech for the confirmation. I figured that wasn't right but like I said first time looking at one other than pics. Guess I found the hard starting problem, now to fix it. Can they be taken off and put on the other side? Cam have to come out or doable with just removing the pan? Thanks, Clint.

You should be able to take them off and move them to the correct side. I've just never seen anyone make that mistake before. I don't think that all the cams have the holes in the front of the gear... I know some do.

Yes, the cam will have to be removed to do it, and by default, the crank also.

That's a new me on me also.

Thanks again. Guess I'll get to work removing the motor. Clint.

You would kind of think the weight pins were pressed/braded at the factory. Can you buy weights? I know we tried foolishly to bend the tab on one once and broke it, bought a new cam to cover that blunder:bash2:. Does anyone replace cam weights?

I didn't think it was even possible :bigeyes:

After some research I'm guessing the weights are not for the ACR, they are for the spark advance system, if thats the case they are right where they're suppose to be. Not sure yet how that opperates or to test it. Clint

What is the serial number of your 100?

Does the starter have problems spinning the engine?

My 100 did not have a compression release in it. The early 100s had a 2 piece cam that help spin the engine. My 100 would only spin the engine a half a turn before the belt would slip or the starter would quit.

Now this is interesting. What are the number break downs?

I don't any data to when the change was made. I remember the early IH catalogue show a replacement cam that had a compression release for early IH cub Cadet 100s. The starter on the early 100s had a smaller diameter on the starter-generator to help spin the engine.

The serial number on my 100 is 89482. I did replace the cam with a compression release style cam that was reground for a few extra ponies. It wasn't cheap.....worth it in my book since I go to plow days with this one.

I'll have to look at serial number when I get home but do know that its a 1964, first year production. The machine shop ( familiar with cubs) that rebuilt my S/G did comment that the pulley was a little smaller than normal. This one has always had to spin over a dozen times or so to get it started. Clint

Merk,it does look like it has a 2 piece cam,I have seen it in a few I have had to change the pan gasket and went WTF!!!

With something like that, even if it exist, I would imagine it being possible that you're trying to start the motor with spark too far advanced. Perhaps there's a different procedure in setting the static timing with a cam designed for spark advance.

Isn't the two piece cam with automatic timing advance set at TDC instead of 20 before? That could possibly explain it trying to spark too far in advance.

I never knew this either! Learn something new everyday!

The serial number on mine is 101344. Maybe I'll play around with the timing before I do anything else.

Found some good info on one of Brian millers sites and it states to set timing at TDC on the early two piece cam. It then advances to 20 degrees once started.

Maybe this will help....

Dale I had forgotten all about that. I have not seen it myself, but I was aware of the two piece cam with the timing advance. I think it was you who brought it up before. Nice catch. :beerchug:


Now you done it. That name isn't very popular here...... I suggest you ask questions here, and get info here.. Unfortunately his site is the first to pop up in nearly any Kohler engine search. He must have made friends with a hacker during one of his runs in prison, for his site to have that many hits in a search.

Didn't know of mr millers reputation, just was not finding much info on web about this situation and was finally happy to see some info on it. Anywho, you guys have always steered me straight, I'd be lost without this site, thanks!

Set timing at TDC and really didn't make much difference, got it to start but it still took awhile. Also tried booster on the battery for a little extra but no difference. Thinking about finding a one piece cam with acr and swap them out, probably pull head and de carbon, check everything in there and put on new gasket since I've never had this one off yet.

Static timing is the best way (only way in my book) to set the points. This will get the engine running. To fine an engine I will use either a timing light or by sound. I have has a few that the hole and the S and SP mark doesn't line up right or the operator is not looking squarely at the mark.

Your tractor was made in November of 1964.

Thanks
Old age and experience is starting to pay off.
My 100 gave me fits until I change the cam.

According to some posters in a thread at this Wheel Horse site there is a difference in the valve tappets so you may need more than just the cam.

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic...181-camshafts/

Quick trip to a parts book debunks that. They are the same on all motors. No difference in length, same part number.

A quick trip to the Kohler Service manual for K Series engines, Section 12 (Reassembly), Page 12.2 says:

"Install Tappets and Camshaft

Install the intake valve tappet and exhaust valve tappet into crankcase.
(intake valve tappet towards bearing plate; exhaust valve tappet towards PTO side of crankcase.)
NOTE: On K161 and K181 ACR engines, install the shorter tappet in the exhaust bore guide. Intake and exhaust tappets are interchangeable on other models."

This is a K241. Not a K161/181

Then I guess that the parts book and the service manual, and you and I agree that the tappets are the same as long as it is K241.

:beerchug:

I should have said all 241 (and above) motors. I guess I was pretty inclusive when I said "all motors". :biggrin2:

Finally getting around to working on this. Picked up another cam with the ACR. Here's a couple pics , ACR on left, timing advance on right.

Another picture

New Cam
 

I am having the same issues and just found this thread.....is swapping the cam out really required? I figured once timing was set thru TDC method it would be ok...People ran my Kohler 40 years without ACR ....Please let Us know how this works out I am curious.

Just got it all put back together tonight, fired right off, starts so easy now, I couldn't be happier.

Suburban man, I responded in your thread also. I've had this 100 for about three years now and always ran great, just very hard starting, like 10-15 seconds of cranking to get it started. After I rebuilt carb, set valves, set timing, tried different coil, condenser, spark plug, there was still no change. After much searching I discovered the cam deal.

If you want to switch them you'll have to pretty much disassemble the motor, I did leave the valves in, had the intention of taking them out but discovered that the motor had been rebuilt and valves looked really good, just make sure both valves are closed when removing the cam, and make sure you pay attention if there are any shims on end of cam. What I replaced, other than cam, gaskets for oil pan, head, carb, breather(2), points cover, cam cover, and both crank seals. I reused the gasket for the bearing plate cause partstree.com said they were no longer available. Don't know if I should have got new tappets or not but I did put assembly lube on cam lobes when I installed it, I guess time will tell, but as of now I'm happy, I have five cubs and my 100 is my favorite. Good luck and hollar if you have questions, many on this forum with more experience than me but will help if I can. Clint

Thanks
 

Clint I went back out yesterday after reading your thread, retimed unit using the T mark on flywheel, set ponits at .020 static. the unit cranked better and eventually fired up!!!! I then put a timing light on it and found the S mark at the upper edge of the hole barely visible. Every time I tried adjusting it down it would die. I decided to see if it would mow and how power was. I had never mowed this tractor was given to me and although I had it running it would drive but no power to engage blades. I'm very impressed with the power this little tank has....I purposely loaded it down cutting uphill a couple times and it just crawled up without noticable drop in RPM. So the timing is barely visible in the upper edge of the hole when running...seems to like it there. I mowed about 45 minutes. I waited about a half hour to cool down and it was slow cranking when I went out. I put the jump start battery on it and it fired right up. So at this point I am going to try a higher cranking amperage battery and larger cables. The cables do get warm when cranking longer periods. It seems to fire right up with the jump pack telling me I need CCA. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread!