1450 issues
 

Having some issues with my 1450, sure hope y'all can help.

Did a tune up a few days ago, installed new plug, points, and a Pointsaver for Kirk engines. After a long struggle to find the timing marks, I finally got the engine timed per the pointsaver instructions and started cutting grass. I was happy as could be with how good it was running. But then half an hour or so in it started cutting out real bad under load. Would barely run at full throttle.
So far I've verified timing and spark plug gap, cleaned out the sediment bowl on the carb, pulled the high speed needle to clean it and reinstall at factory settings, and checked wiring and grounds. Still the same story even when engine is cool.

Here's a video of what its doing.

Cub cadet 1450 issues: https://youtu.be/-KlgbdhTs-c

Sorry I'm not good with hot links.

Thanks for reading!

Nathan

take the point saver off and put a condenser on,

Be glad to try it if you think that's the problem. Not arguing, but I was under the impression that the guy behind the pointsaver and his products were pretty well regarded? Not arguing, just asking.

Why ???? Not saying you are wrong , just curious.

I have had a few mowers that did that and the high speed needle was set to rich. I would try to adjust that and see what happens. I seen some black smoke from your exhaust. Is it spitting fuel out of the carb. ??

Try to screw the needle in some and see if it will go to WOT and then adjust it to get the best setting. Factory setting is just a starting point.

Couldn't hurt to try.

I'll try that. I assumed the black smoke was from when it cut out it was loading up on fuel, but now that you mention it I may have seen some fuel spitting out of carb. I'm just always paranoid about going too lean.

If you screw the high speed needle in enough and it starts and will go to WOT , start to richen the needle until it starts cutting out and then slowly screw the needle in until it starts cutting out and then back it out until it smooths out.

Somewhere in the middle of lean/rich will be a sweet spot. If you are paranoid about setting it to lean , once it smooths out , richen the needle SLIGHTLY and run it for awhile and then check your plug to see if you have a lean rich mixture.

To lean is not good !!

OK so I had a day off work today and tried your suggestion of leaning out the fuel mixture. Seemed to be helping, was finally able to get it to run decent at WOT. Until I put a little load on it. Then it was back to the same. However, new information that might help. After it started cutting out I idled down and shut it off and noticed it was dripping gas from the carb. My assumption at this point is that its time for at minimum a new float, probably a total carb rebuild.
Also, it looks as though the fuel line may be interfering with the movement of the governor linkage on top of the carb. However its the same fuel line that's been on the tractor since I bought it 2 years ago, so I don't know what would've changed there to cause any issue.

Any thoughts?

My thought is you need to rebuild the carb. Could be the float, could be the needle valve and/or seat. Give it a good cleaning and be sure to replace the needle valve seat. The fuel line should not interfere with the governor linkage, you can move the governor arm in/out on the governor shaft until it no longer interferes. If you do mess with the governor arm, read the instructions in the manual very carefully on the proper procedure to put it back on.

how many point sets do you go through? I still have the same points and condenser on one of my tractors that I put on it when I rebuilt it in the mid
80's. another tractor I have has to have the same set from the 90's. I guess I don't see how you can call something a saver when there isn't a problem there in the first place. and it costs more than a condenser. I've seen problems with them and I'm not very fond of them. the few that I've seen I just take them off and put a condenser back on.

Condensor, condenser, condenser. Put it back the way you had it; it looks like it's rejecting the PointsSaver mod. A bad condenser will look like carburetor issues almost every time. Double check the timing (points gap) and start over with the factory hi and low speed screw settings and go from there.

I gotta agree with dvogtvpe, once in awhile if they are badly pitted, I will feel the need to put new points on a "new to me" tractor, but not normally.

They last for eons, I don't see any need to try and improve on something that is already nearly fail proof.

Just my opinion.

+2,
I never change points unless they are worn nubs or burned up blue cause ign was left on.
My '63 chevy still has the original points as well as my 71 Cheyenne.
that I know for sure!
Don't need no stinkin eee lectronic ing. systems.
Give me a set of points and a carburetor any day!

A good set of points will last for years... don't go for the cheap ones... I believe that you will find the points saver to be the problem.. a bad condenser will cause the same issue also... been there done that with a KT 17 in a 782.

The OP already has the Pointsaver installed , so why not try to eliminate the carb. as a source of the problem ??? If it is not the carb and it ends up being the Pointsaver , i am sure the seller will stand behind it.

I agree about the points lasting , but the person has already spent the money and installed the Pointsaver.

The carb may just have a piece of trash in it , and it may need rebuilding , maybe a throttle shaft bushing installed.

ok, He can do whatever he wants. it ran ok before, then he messed with it, now he has an issue. you should go back and verify what you have done. only takes a few min. to unhook the pointsaver and put the old condenser on, rather than order a carb kit. clean the carb and risk more opportunity to make another problem and then you have maybe 2 problems and you really don't know what to do. ever read how many people on this forum rebuild or clean carbs and have problems afterward?
personally if it was running good I would never have messed with it in the first place . but that's just me and its just my opinion. but then again I work on more engines in a year than the majority of the people on the forum do combined.

First things first, if it was running good I wouldn't have "messed with it". But I had noticed a decline in performance since I had bought it a couple years ago so I figured it was time for a tune up. If I just wanted to mess with it I would have installed the new points and Pointsaver 2 years ago when I bought them with some other things from Kirk Engines. A product and vender of which I'd read nothing but good reviews of. Before anyone decides that I'm not listening to their suggestions let me say that I've had about 30 minutes to work on the machine since I originally posted. I fully intend to attempt reinstalling the condenser to eliminate the Pointsaver as the problem before I order any parts. But I fail to see how the pointsaver can cause straight fuel to be dripping from the carb.

If you have gas dripping from the carb. then yes, you have crud in the needle preventing it from stopping flow and possibly restricting flow while the tractor is running. If gas is not running out the throat of the carb. while it is just setting with the engine not running (and the fuel valve open) then this is probably not the problem.

Don't monkey around trying to clean the inlet out with the carb. on the tractor. Take the carb. off remove the elbow, the bowl, float and needle. holding the carb. with the inlet down, use your favorite spritz to spray the passage out until it's clear of all foreign matter. Probably best to clean the tank and filter out along with replacing the hose. Put it back together and try again.

If it still does the same thing, put the condenser back on and see what happens.

Don't let this turn into 2 problems at the same once, you'll make yourself crazy tying to figger it out.

90% of all carburetor problems are electrical.

I got a k301 in my 1211. It did that popping backfiring crap a couple weeks ago, turned out the condenser wire broke right where it goes into the condenser. Couldn't tell by looking, but that's all it was. New condenser and she ran like a top. Like others said get your carb fixed, nothing more aggravating than two problems at once feeding off one another.

i say clean the carb, its maintenance anyhow. adjust the carb and see how she runs. if still rough, then maybe move forward. take the plug out and look at the spark too. nice and crisp blue i wouldnt worry about the condenser.

WOW! Look at the debate!! :bigeyes:


And to think..... I wasn't even involved! :biggrin2::biggrin2:


:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:



I have a question:
In your video.... you don't have an air filter or muffler on. Neither of which would be required to remove to repair or replace anything you mentioned. (Aside from cleaning the carb..... you have to take the filter housing off for that.) So.... when you were mowing with it, was the muffler and air cleaner on it? Why is the muffler off anyway?

Yes everything was in place when I was mowing. The air filter assembly was off because I had pulled the bowl off the carb and when I found junk in it I also pulled the high speed needle and cleaned it as mentioned in an earlier post.

The muffler is off because I thought if I was this far in I'd pull engine runs to make sure I didn't have any critters residing in them. When I started taking engine runs off I found that the neck of the muffler has rotted away and the muffler crutch was the only thing left holding the muffler in. I'll be taking it somewhere to try and get a new inlet welded on this week, possibly tomorrow.

I would have to agree with JT4 (Mr Spock) and Yosemite sam on this one.

Gas dripping out the carb is not a normal situation and possible fire hazard if its bad enough.

Also you found crud in the bowl. And its running rich.

What happens is either a piece of trash gets stuck between the needle and seat on top of the float causing the fuel to keep coming in instead of the float shutting er down like your toilet bowl does.

sometimes the rubber tip on the needle gets torn or dented also causing the same.

while apart also check to see it the brass float in-fact floats in a small container and is not waterlogged.

You can hold the carb at eye level and when the new needle hits the seat the float should be close to horizontal, if not you can slightly bend the back of the lip on the brass float but I would not recommend to do this as usually they dont bend to much in use.

And like others mention a points coil and condeser setup it pretty dependable without the Kirk part of which I have no experience.

If you get the gas leak stopped you can always go back to the starting point without it.

Fuel leak is a separate problem from the running. More than likely a simple fix. Pull the bowl and flush it out.