127 not starting
 

I am very excited to have recently purchased a 127- I have been wanting one for quite a while. I am new to the forum and new to working with these great machines. I have some mechanical knowledge but haven't been doing to well with my cub!

I got it off craigs list- working great. I have tried to mow about 3/4 acre worth of lawn 3 times and have yet to finish for one reason or another. I have attempted to read through forums to look for similar problems but nothing the same as what is going on with mine.

-Issue- was out mowing, everything was working well. Suddenly engine starting choking down and then just died. I have been starting it with a jumper because the battery has not been charging even after running for some time. This time, I was unable to get the engine to do anything what so ever. When I turn the key, it makes a click as though something is trying to engage but absolutely nothing from the engine, no sputter or anything. i will be checking the spark plug tonight... but that's about as far as I know to get

yes it has gas-
yes it has oil-

If someone might be able to walk me through a quick diagnostic on this issue. Please be patient and pretend you are speaking with a 5 year old! Ok maybe a 12 year old.

I love this dang tractor and am determined to learn how to work on it and keep it running happy!!! thanks for any help!

First, welcome to OCC.......... :Welcome2:

Sounds like you have a couple of different issues going here. But, first & foremost, get the battery fully charged before anything else. You may want to take it somewhere and have it "load tested". Once you have established that the battery is good and fully charged, we will move on the Plan B.

Great! Thank you for the quick response and the welcome! I will try and get it tested in the next day or two.

Report back when you are ready to go on to the next step.

Finally Back!
 

Time got away from me! Battery was at 11%, has been charged back to full. I hooked it up. Made click noise when I turned the key, but no engine chug what so ever!

Start checking the electrical connections.
Clean the ground(s) and apply some dielectric grease to all connections.

The clicking you hear is the starter solenoid, if you have a test light or a volt meter I would start by confirming that your getting power to the starter side of the solenoid when the key is in the start position.

The battery cables (both positive [red] and ground [black]) ends need to be clean and bright. Sanding, wire wheeling, or scouring them to where there is no rust corrosion or film build needs to be done. This will assure, there is no resistance to the travel of the electricity through the cables. This also applies to the terminal ends that the cable(s) hooks up to.

BTW....Did you have your battery "load tested"....???

:ThumbsUp:

Ok will wire brush everything and make sure it's all cleaned up. I took it in to an auto parts place. They tested it and charged it. I assumed they load tested it. Was that a poor assumption?

I don't know about a poor assumption, but these days you have to specifically ask. The people on the other end may have "other things" on their mind. :biggrin2:

Alrighty, finally got a chance to get to the wires.... I cleaned them, put the grease on.... Stil a click and then a chug. The chug is not an engine chug. I'm taking battery back in to have it load tested tomorrow just to make sure.

The clicking noise you are probably hearing, is the Starter Solenoid chattering possibly due to a low battery. This is why you have to know (A) the battery is good, and (B) that it is fully charged.

:IH Trusted Hand:

127 not starting
 

1 other thing at this point I might add is to make sure where the ground fastens to the frame or engine, make sure that is clean and the bolt and or nut also and tight this is a commonly over looked item. Just thought I would stick my nose in here a little. :bigthink:
olesalt

correct me if i am wrong,but doesnt a 127 have points????? if so it sounds like he was running it off of a weak battery which shut the ignition down once voltage was too low. i would replace the battery,clean and check all connections and once its running check the charging system.

Yes.... but that has nothing to do with the starting system. :Unknown:

he stated using a jumper pack to start it in the first post. its like driving your car with no alternator,you will only go so far on the battery. no juice = no crank or spark.

Yes.... which has nothing to do with the ignition system....

ok,you win. i will not comment further since apparently i know nothing :BB&YS:

J-Mech and R Bedell are giving you good advice. A good battery and clean connections at the battery and grounds should get your starter working.

(The starter/generator (or S/G for short) is that 5 inch by 10 inch cylinder-shaped thing hanging out on the right side of the engine with the vee-belt running to the front of the engine)

The three grounding points to check are the short negative wire from the battery to the frame (1) and then the other short ground wire from the starter mounting bolt (2) to the frame (3). clean up those 3 connections plus, as you've already done, the two at the battery itself.

When you turn the key, the electricity goes to the starter relay, which in turn sends power to the starter motor, which then rotates the engine. It sounds like your starter relay is working, but not enough electricity is getting to the starter motor. Usually that is caused by poor ground connections or a weak battery.

Since the engine was running before, it's entirely possible that once you get the battery and/or ground connections fixed, it'll be running again.

Fresh gas and a new spark plug can also improve how the tractor runs and both are easy to do. Be sure to check the engine oil every time before you start the tractor and keep it at the full mark.

Good luck and report back on progress. Lots of helpful folks here.

I just bought a new battery and tried it (needed a new one for something else)- Same situation- click from starter and then a little bit of a hiss or brushing sound briefly.
I then had some time at work and was able to watch a bunch of videos on the wiring and got inspired. Bad idea probably- Traced everything now that I understood better what everything was... pull the three ignition connections, put grease on them, same with the solenoid.... checked the ground, looks good. Reconnected battery, when I tried to start, the positive on the battery sparked. I made sure everything was good and tight, happened again. And, the click the starter WAS making and the brief brush hiss sound, now gone. Completely D.E.A.D.

So, I may have made matters worse now! ;( I am going to get a multi meter today so I can actually test the battery and solenoid. Found a battery charger in the workshop and will throw new battery on to make sure it is good and charged..... thanks for hanging in there on this with me! It seems so simple when watching videos, why I can't get it, I'm not sure!

Don't get discouraged. These little tractors aren't complex but they can give you fits at times. Once you get it going, you're going to love it.

Have you been taking photos/video of what you are working on/taking apart? It is surprisingly easy to put wires back in the wrong place, reconnect carb linkages in the wrong slots, etc. A quick before video with you phone will bail you out of a lot of trouble.

You need to:

• Download the 127 owners and service manuals

• Study the wiring schematic

• Trace all your wires for condition, connection and originality (well-meaning tinkerers can wreak havoc on a wiring harness)

The solenoid is a very simple concept. They are there so that the IGN switch doesn't have to carry the full load to the starter. The IGN switch sends power to the solenoid (which is essentially a plunger switch) which then makes the final connection to energize the starter.

So, when the battery and/or its connections are weak, you get the click. I've worked on friends cars that were doing that, and it was a simple as a loose ground at the battery.

Let us know what voltage you are getting on the starter side of the solenoid.

:beerchug:

I think you need to look for a short somewhere....I'm leaning on that wire on the starting circuit (battery to solenoid to starter) and maybe even the starter or solenoid itself might be bummed. Also, but not likely, the lead from key to solenoid.

And yes.... a meter will be helpful tool in checking this!

This is a good idea. As a suggestion........don't buy the cheapest meter out there. I would suggest that you look at ones in the $25 - $50 range. They are reasonably accurate and will afford you some years of durability.

IF...you have any meter questions, make note of the Brand Name and Model number and bring it back here. We will steer you in the right direction.

:ThumbsUp:

You said after disconnecting and reconnecting the battery cable you got spark on the positive side of the battery and no click. I'm wondering if the positive battery cable is bad and not passing enough current. It was passing enough before to pull the solenoid, now after moving it, it's not making enough contact and it sparking where the wire connects to the terminal. This is something we can help you test with your new meter.

Bill

My 104 did the same thing because there was a short in the wire to the safety switch in the frame. As Billy-O stated first stated, there is a short somewhere along the electrical path that is drawing on your battery. That is why you saw the spark when connecting the positive terminal wire. Lots of good advice given to you already. Hang in there!! These are great little tractors and parts for the 127 are plentiful.

Cub Cadet 123

Well Dang! I seriously appreciate all the good suggestions. I do loooooooove this tractor!!!! I printed off the manual a while back. I will go through everything again with a fine tooth comb and report back.

Oh yeah, photos or it doesn't exist!

:biggrin2:

Julie,

Just a couple of thoughts.

First, your Starter/Generator may need a re-build, and may not be making brush-armature contact. It may be something to check.

Second, when cleaning up both your live and ground contacts, please be sure that you are using dialectrec grease, and not regular lubricating grease. Dialectric grease assures a good electrical contact after the connector surfaces have been properly cleaned.

Most of all, Please keep working on your tractor and do not become discouraged. Somewhere, there is a problem and you will find it soon enough. Everyone here will support you.

Brian Wittman

Just as a thought, see if you can spin the motor over by hand, or turn the starter/generator by hand. I have had an SG sieze a bearing on me before and it stopped the engine on me. Might be worth checking.

If there is no short, try checking the connector that goes to the battery and is connected to the hot wire. I had a friend where the connection in the wire corroded and his atv starter wouldn't crank because there was too much resistance where the corrosion was. First look for a short, if there is none. Than you may want to check this.

Dielectric grease- check
Positive battery cable did get a little "broken" when I was "tinkering/cleaning"! Replaced it. Back to click and moaning sound. Saw a test online to check starter. Put positive on the A on starter with jumper cables.... Starter is dead! I have a 122 I tried the same test on and it worked fine.... So, looks like starter might need to be replaced?
Also, would that be the reason it seems to be draining battery?

YES...for a number of reasons.

AS A SUGGESTION.....

Take the bad S/G to a reputable repair shop. It is better to have that S/G rebuilt than buy any of that Chinese Junk they are selling on the web. In the long run, you will be much better off.

:IH Trusted Hand:

You could also try and take the s/g apart and wire brush it, the armature, brushes, field coils, pretty much the whole inside. I try that first when I have starter problems, but make sure to inspect it and if something is broke or messed up then take it in.

Alrighty! I will take it apart and check it out. Super stoked to at least have narrowed down the issue! This is a raaaaaad forum! :).

Agreed, not a lot to the starter generator, a couple long bolts and it comes right apart to inspect/clean/test

Roland's suggestion is worth gold. The older starter generators are MUCH better units than anything you can buy new, so either rebuild it yourself or trade it to a shop. There is a thread in the "restoration tips" section titled "rebuild that starter generator yourself" by OldAndInTheWay that is a great resource. Glad you narrowed it down!

Here are some pics of an s/g that I took apart a few months ago

I pulled the starter apart, didn't really see anything broken, cleaned it out. Still not working. I will check out the rebuild tips, thanks for the heads up on that. The only thing I could see that might be broken- looks like a little piece of brass something was very shiny and may have snapped off. Pic on top right shows shiny copper wire and then a shiny brass something.... Not sure. I will see what I can find on the rebuild forum.

The problem may not be visible to the eye. You may want to consider taking it to a Repair Shop for their examination and a "bench test". They have all the meters (VOM and Amperage) to accurately diagnose any issues. If there is nothing wrong other than a good cleaning, you will have definitive knowledge the S/G is OK. That process wouldn't cost that much money.

:IH Trusted Hand:

Like Roland said, I would take it to a shop. I've let the smoke out of too many electrical parts trying to do repairs; once you let the smoke out it will never work. :biggrin2:

In the mean time, you said you have a 122. You could take the s/g from the 122 and put it on the 127. This would allow you continue troubleshooting any other issues on the 127 or show that the s/g and battery cable were the only problems. That way once the 127 s/g is repaired you can bolt it on and go. :beerchug:

Bill