1450 difficult to start
 

When starting my 1450 it will fire right away but I have to throttle up and down almost constantly to keep it running. It won't idle long with the throttle way down, but when increasing throttle it wants to die. I have to slowly move the choke in a little at a time while doing this. This goes on for about 5 minutes then it will let me open the throttle all the way up and run perfectly. Choke and throttle appear to work fine. Has anyone else had this problem?

A good carb cleaning and/or adjustment is in order it sounds like. Is there a gasket between the carb and block?

Need a little more information. So you start it and leave the choke closed and try
To throttle up? You stated you had to push the choke in a little while advancing the throttle.
Is this a new development? What's the temp? My 129 has a Walbro carb that takes forever to warm up to where I can advance the throttle quickly. I live with this cause its a fixed jet carb.

Have you cleaned up your carburetor lately? Sounds like it may help.

The only way it will stay running is if I have the choke about half closed and give it some throttle otherwise it dies after a few seconds. It acted the same as when it was 90 degree weather as it does at 30 degrees now.

I was thinking carb issue. I have not had the carb off yet. I bought this tractor last summer and I'm just getting to working on it. I plowed snow with it a couple times and it runs great, its just quite a project to get it going

I'm just curious. Can you or have you pulled the spark plug and see what the bottom of it looks like. Whitish will be running lean. A golden fawn almost coffee color is just right and black is to rich. Will tell you alot about how it's running. Sounds to me like the transistor from idle jet to high speed jet isn't quite right. If you havnt done it go ahead and give the carb a real good cleaning it wouldn't hurt since ya really don't know of the service record

Spark plug is black. Sounds like the carb cleaning I was planning might help. I'm not a pro with small engines so I wanted to make sure there wasn't something I wasn't thinking of. It would be easier for me if they put V8's in these things haha. Thanks for the advice guys. Time to get her running good so I can move on the the lift problem...

Just think of it as a flathead ford just a few less cylinders lol. Youll get it. A kit and good cleaning blowout will get ya back in buisness

Before you take the carb off/apart, try going a 1/2 turn richer on the main jet.(CCW)
The plug is black because you are choking it a lot.
You are describing a lean condition,
and if the plug is black, it prolly is not firing when you try to increase the throttle.
The plug should clean up when you get the mixture right.
Or you can try a new/different plug after you adjust the carb a bit.
if this doesn't work then clean the carb.
Always try the easy things first.
Also do check the timing via the static method, not with feeler gauge.
A feeler gets you close, but static gets you right on.

George is spot on, my 149 had the same issues, opened up the jetting a bit and it purrs like kitten.

I'm with this idea. If an engine used to run good now it's lean as you described then what changed? It's always dirt in the system somewhere. You can adjust to compensate for the lean condition but I would rather rather fix it than just put a band aid on it

When something like a sudden lean condition happens, I sometimes make a decision as to whether I should do carb cleaning or tweak the fuel/air mixture. And the compromised decision is to pop off the fuel bowl only and clean it out as well shoot carb cleaner where I can at the carb. I might find something, I might not. Quick and easy to do....if the fix is negative, then I take it further.

To all who said it's lean condition I have a few questions:

~If it's lean, then why does he have to push the choke IN as he accelerates it?
~If it's a plugged main jet, then why won't it idle? Doesn't take much fuel to idle, and he already stated it will run at full..... if it can get enough fuel to run at full, it should be able to get enough to idle.
~Why is the plug black?



To the OP:
~Once it warms up, how does it act under load? (Does it ever pull down hard, and you have to choke it to keep it running?)
~Do you still have to leave the choke on?
~After it's warm, will it start easily? (Without the choke)

You stated you bought it last summer. What all have you done to this machine/engine before now? Has it always ran like this since you've had it running?

I bought a cub that had almost the exact same symptoms, the guy rebuilt the carb and it never ran right again. After a bunch of messing around it turned out that the high speed needle was over tightened when it was reassembled and it bent, might not be your problem but it wouldn't hurt to pull the needle and check.

A little history on this machine could be helpful, has it always run this way, did it set a long time before you got it, what brand of carburetor is on this engine, is the throttle shaft sloppy in it's bore, is the carb to engine gasket in good condition?

Right or wrong, if it were mine, the first thing I would do is remove the high speed needle and make sure the little holes are all clean. The needle is hollow and it needs to be clean inside too. Sometimes crud inside the needle will give false impressions. Then put it back in and set it according to the manual (2 turns out, I believe).

If the tractor sat a long time I would think that a carb rebuild would be in order (disassemble, soak over night, blow all the passages out and install a new kit) Squirting carb cleaner down the throat does absolutely nothing.

I believe I would also check the timing.

After it warms up it runs absolutely perfect. I pushed a pile of wet snow half a block and it never stumbled at all. It takes a little less messing around when its hot but still doesn't start like it should. When I bought this last summer it was already doing this. It sat in a shed for years before I got it. All I've done to it is replace the spark plug and emptied the gas tank so I could fill with fresh gas. The tank had lots of crap in it so I removed it and washed it out really good. That leads me to believe some of that junk made it to the carb.

Yosemite Sam-
It started like this when I got it. It did sit for years. I have the Kohler carb, throttle shaft seems fine. After sitting so long I want to clean up the carb anyway, so I ordered a carb kit and will try to check timing while I wait for that to get here.

I took it as the op had to have some choke to accelerate at all
Maybe I miss read it.
I figured an expert would come along soon, and they did

Looked at the points today, had some buildup on them and there was barely any gap even after cleaning. I set it to recommended clearance. But I think I have bigger issues. After removing carb to get ready to rebuild I could see carbon buildup on the underside of the intake valve. I removed the head and its ugly. Lots of carbon on the valves and there is a thick buildup that hangs out past the cylinder wall that appears to have worn the top of the piston in that spot. Time to make some decisions about the future of this rig...

I would like to see a pic of that

Across from the exhaust valve there is a heavy carbon deposit around the top of the cylinder. You can see more of a gap between the piston and wall when the piston is down right in that spot. The other picture shows the intake valve

I think you might need more than a carb rebuild. Jon will access those pics much better than I can but I think I can see the top ring in the one pic. That's quite a lot of piston to cylinder clearance:biggrin2:

The top ring can be seen when looking down at the piston. The rock hard buildup wore the edge of the piston right off. I was trying to decide what was going to get a crazy repower, this one or my 1811. I think it will be this one...

I think it was more the piston was slowly eaten away by the head and the carbon built up from the oil getting past the rings. But eather way at bare minimum a hone new piston and rings... they are cheap enough to rebuild I think id stick with that engine

Definately not a lean condition..... just as I suspected. More than likely it was: weak spark, incorrect timing, and low compression.

More pics would help.
Need to see:
~One of the entire deck area prior to cleaning.
~Better ones, closer to the piston, and with it at the top.
~Pic of the exhaust valve with it open just like the one of the intake. Before cleaning.
~Pic of the cylinder head before and after cleaning.
~Clean it all up, and post a pic of the piston at TDC showing the whole deck.

Well go from there. Engine may be toast. One step at a time, and don't do anything besides take pics and clean it.

I don't see how you can tell that from the pics he posted. Piston looks fine from my seat..... But it's awful far away in that pic.

How did that build up get on the bottom of the intake? Incorrect timing?

Most likely:
~Low cylinder temps along with poor fuel quality (dirty) and dirty air (no filter/bad filter dirt entering somewhere)
~Dirt

Other possible causes:
~Worn valve and guide along with plugged air filter causing it to suck oil past the valve stem. Possible plugged drain in the lifter galley.
~Dirt

That much crap on the bottom of the intake usually means dirt. You see it all the time on engines with EGR and crankcase vents that feed into the intake...... or engines that have intake ducting leaks (dirty air). Did I say dirt? :biggrin2::biggrin2:

This is the only other pic I have, I can get more tomorrow. The dark line between the piston and cylinder wall on the exhaust side (right side of pic) is not a shadow, its a gap with the worst part being right in line with the exhaust valve. The other half of the piston is tight to the wall. When the piston is at TDC the gap is gone, it is tight to the thick area of carbon at the top of the cylinder. It really looks like the edge of the piston is eaten away.

Sorry pic didnt attach on last post

I don't see it.

You can't tell anything with all that carbon on there. Not saying that the piston doesn't have erosion. It's common in that exact spot, so what you are saying makes sense..... but that's usually on an engine that has been hot....... that's an old motor, it may have been hot, before it was too cool! Get the pics I asked for then clean it. We'll go from there. Too hard to tell anything when it's that dirty. But dirt/carbon can tell us a lot, so get pics before cleaning. Then more after.

I would say it was dirt. You should have seen all the crap I cleaned out of the gas tank. Could have grown potatoes in that thing!

I know it was..... :biggrin2:

I bet if you pulled the oil pan, it would look the same way. Motor is probably not going to be worth saving...... but, it may have some life left.

Like I said in an earlier post, I have 2 cubs, was trying to decide which one is gonna cut the grass, and which one is gonna be a toy. Looks like this one might be the project.

When you say not worth saving, you mean it will have to be rebuilt? Right? You are scaring me here as I have two that look about like that.
Or when they are that bad there are things ruined that make it cost prohibitive?

I think he's saying it will be time for a rebuild. There's been a whole lot worse looking ones on here that have been saved, some of which were mine :biggrin2:

Even if I'd does has some life left I'd stop right now and rebuild it before any further damage is done, the longer you push it the more chance there is for a catastrophic failure which while add big bucks to the rebuild.

Tim, I agree with you here. In my opinion, the crank is the most important piece of the puzzle. The only way we know what's worth saving is not so much by eye sight, but by what the Kohler Engine Manual lists for acceptable tolerances. Have them rebuilt before further damage occurs. Chances are one can find a whole, decent running tractor for 2-3 hundred?

later

I'm all for rebuilding engines when they need to be...... but some of you guys are awful quick to condemn this engine based on appearance. No one knows if the internals are worn from the pics posted. I agree it looks bad, but lets not jump to conclusions until he gets it cleaned up. I've seen nasty engines like that they could be made to run. I do agree with Tim though that it may have rod wear..... shoot, we KNOW it does, it's not a new motor. I can't tell from the posted pics if it's shot yet. I'm waiting on more pics before I condemn it.


For the record, when I said not salvageable, yes, I meant that it may need rebuilt. In other words, a stout "tune up" may not fix it.