1650 starter shot
 

I checked with cub and bout' fell out of my chair. $350 and change.
Checked my CARQUEST and they can't get the correct one.
Napa wants like $223 something.
The Oregon aftermarket was only a 10 tooth, I need 13.
So I found this on evil pay. I FIGURED it can't be any good for that price. Have any of you tried these aftermarket starters? Think I may try one, but a little leery, your thoughts...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STARTER-...6d87c#rpdCntId

You can probably have yours rebuilt for the same money.
Just had one done a few weeks ago in Cedar Rapids, $51 and change.

Whats all wrong with it. Ive got brush kits off ebay for cheap and done quite a few in fact my 1000 is going on 3 years with ebay parts. My 1450 got them last winter and still working fine I might buy a setup to do my 1200 when I go through it this winter I personally think it should be alright for the price. I wouldnt expect it to last another 30 years but it outta be good for a few at least

Todd:

I have done both, had mine rebuilt and bought new. IIRC, my rebuild was <$60.00.

I have bought two starters from these guys with much success.... Motor City Reman

The big thing on mine is the bendings won't return. Go to start the tractor and it get's to the flywheel and stops. And won't return.
Make sense? No!
I turn the key, the starter engages the flywheel and you hear......well you hear it engage the flywheel. Look at it and it's stuck against it. Take it off and it goes back to it's normal position.
I cleaned it up last week when it did it the first time and it worked one time. Did the same thing over the weekend and it didn't work so good. Took the starter apart and cleaned the com out with compressed air, and electric cleaner. Brushes looked to be down to that mark on them.
PUT EVERYTHING BACK TOGETHER, dab of oil on the shaft, works smooth, put it back on the tractor, same crap.
I've got a good electric motor place up here....

It almost sounds like an alignment problem, how do the teeth look on the Bendix and the flywheel?

Most excellent.

I thought this situation was unique to my 1450. I have an alignment problem on my 1450's starter and I cured it by adding some washers between the Starter mount and the engine block. Cured that problem. :ThumbsUp:

:Morning: Check this place out dbelectrical, I have bought several starters from them and they worked good. :American Flag 1:

OK, but would that happen all of a sudden? Worked fine till it happend:bigthink:

Nope, I inherited my problem. Was that way when I got the tractor.

Just trying to make sure I understand. You turn the key, the starter engages, and stops, the engine doesn't turn over? Is your battery good, are all your grounds clean/tight? Earlier this summer when I decarbon the head of my 1450, I forgot to reattach the ground strap on the firewall in haste and it did the same thing. Starter would engage with a clunk and stop.

Bill

Yes to all the above. Everything was checked, and checked again. It's a starter issue.... going into town to the motor place and have it checked out. Will report back later.

Maybe the starter works OK without any load (bench test). Once it engages and now is under load, it don't have enough power to roll the engine over.

:bigthink:

Took it in, everything checks out fine:bigthink:
Took it apart and inspected the brushes, they look good, everything looked good he said. Did the load test, fine....
Back out to check grounds again and wires, then.....I don't know.

Bookmark that one! Very nice find! Thank you for sharing!:ThumbsUp:

Zippy! Step back, take a good breath and jump in again, it look like a wiring issue to me but I'm just a "Nooby" Cub owner:RollEyes2:

Did you try turning the engine over by hand ?
Maybe it is seized up, broken rod?

I picked up a 1200 a year ago w/the same problem. Turned out to be a huge wad of mice nest stuff all jammed up into the flywheel.

Pulled the engine & removed the flywheel housing and pulled out handfulls of wadded up carpet mat'l.

Put it all back together, no more problems.

Is your return spring missing or broken? Spiral spline shaft cleran and lubed a little?

There is no obstruction.
Checked the wires and ground again. Put the starter in, turned the key and it stuck against the flywheel. Took the tunnel cover off and turned the engine backwards, removed the starter, let it go back in the neutral position, tried it and it started. I started and stopped it five six times with out any trouble.
Then tried it again, same sh&%! Seems like when it get's to a certain spot it locks (starter) against the flywheel.

Compression release not working right in the engine? Perhaps the starter doesn't have enough oomph to make it past the compression stroke either due to wiring (I know you checked it all) or the auto compression release isn't working. Just a thought. :bigthink:

Guys.

Talked to Zip about this. Said he was using the tractor, shut it off, and now the starter won't work. All was fine. This really was sudden. So, we can eliminate the mouse nests, broken rods, and failed engines. (As a note, the motor was overhauled only a couple years ago.) It spins fine with the spark plug removed. I had him check the compression release. He says all seems well. At this point, we are leaning toward an electrical problem. I am not convinced that even though the starter was checked, that it's good. He's going to check the timing and make sure that it didn't change and become advanced for some reason, and also do a load check on the wiring up to the starter. Good luck Todd, and let us know!

Run a jumper across the Starter Solenoid large terminals to rule out bad contacts within. Tell us what you find.

That's a good idea too.

I suggested that he disconnect the starter wire, then attach a battery load tester to the wire, and attach the ground (of the load tester) to the frame. Hold the key in the start position, then hit the button on the load tester. That will put a 50amp draw on the entire starting system. If something is weak it should show up.

Hell....let's jump to the Nitty Gritty.

Get a vehicle and jumper cables and run from the vehicle battery to the tractor starter. Black lead on the starter mount and the red lead to the starter terminal.
That eliminates all the tractor electrical and is going to tell the story right now.

:IH Trusted Hand:

There ya go!!! Agreed! :ThumbsUp:

Only issue that I can see with that is, if the starter is weak, and you put a much larger CCA battery to it, it may mask the weak starter. Thoughts? :bigthink:

The shim thingy sounds like a thing to try.

Did they rebuid the bendix components or clean them? How is the spring?

***I don't mean to talk for Todd, but I know he's out working in the shop.***

Todd cleaned the bendix and lubed it. He says the spring is intact and seems to pull it back into place when pulled out and let go.

The starter sticking in the ring gear doesn't bother me too much. The bendix won't pull in until the load is off, or the engine starts and spins it back in. I really think it's sticking in the ring gear because the motor stops turning, and then he lets off the starter. When the starter motor stops and the motor doesn't move either, it's normal for the bedix gear to stick. I see that sort of thing alot...... mostly on bigger motors, but I've seen a lot of "lawn mower" starters that do that.

Well I drained all the fluid out of it and rolled it down the hill into the pond for a fish crib:bigeyes:
No... checked the timing and it's fine. Took the fuel tank off and checked everything behind the dash to make sure there was nothing wrong back there. Fine!
Didn't get the load test done yet. But I did take the starter apart again figuring what do I have to loose. Went over the commentator with some emery cloth as well as the brushes. Put it back together and installed it and it fired right up. Started three times, woohoo!! Fixed!! Ah, no.:bash2:
Same thing. I'll try the load test tomorrow. But I did order a starter off evil-pay tonight.
As the boys and I were talking today, it's leaning that way regardless what the test showed. So figured might as well get the thing ordered and the ball rolling.
Thanks everyone for the ideas, we'll get it going sooner or later:bigthink:

the one ground people overlook is the one from the engine to the frame at the right front. it is a rubber mounted engine and needs that ground

I don't know that I buy that. While the engine may start easier, I think there would still be a tell. If the starter used more amps from the larger battery, those amps have to go some where. The engine takes the same finite amount of power to start regardless of the condition of the starter. Any extra power consumed would be turned into heat. I think the starter would be smoking hot after turning over the engine for a short period. Just my "thoughts".

I do like the load tester in place of the starter for checking the wiring. For those of us without a load tester, would a second tractor suffice? Unhook the problem starter and connect the start cable to the starter post of another tractor with jumper cables and ground the two machines together. See if you can turn over the second tractor with the first. I think Todd is past this, but just more thinking out loud. :beerchug:

Bill

Okay. The load tester I borrowed don't work:angry:
So I hooked a set of jumpers from my 1330 to the starter of the 1650. Same crap:bash2: Turns so far then stops with the sprocket engaged to the flywheel.
I give till we get the new starter.

maybe far out there .... but any chance the flywheel is bent or cocked? Im wondering if it stops in the same position each time? (chalk it and see where its hanging?)

Could the ring gear have come loose from the flywheel?

Why don't you try cranking it with the spark plug removed and see if it binds up or not??

ACR is my guess.

See post #21.

Received the new starter today. A $62 dollar Taiwan built, no name brand, starter.
Sure looks pretty! Installed it, turned the key and it fired right up. Tried it ten times without a hitch. Seems to have been the problem the whole time:bigthink:
So for now, I'm a happy camper:beerchug:

When my starter goes out, I'll order an ebay one because of you. Glad to hear your 1650 is back in action. Hope it lasts a long time.

Well I wouldn't go all in just yet. We'll see in six months from now if it's worth $62:biggrin2: