1450, no hydro after low fluid.....
 

Hello all,
Let me start off by declaring my ignorance involving IHCC hydro units, I have zero experience with these and almost just as much knowledge about them.

My neighbor has a 1450 that will not move in forward or reverse, the hydro lift is dead aswell. This leads me to believe the pump is shot......

His son ran it low in fluid, One day he was mowing and when he went to park it all just quit....no noise or anything out of the ordinary just quietly quit.....

We pulled the seat pan and fenders to investigate.

We know this:
-Fluid is at correct level and clean.
-The linkage all moves as it should.
-You can hear the pump spin inside the hydro unit when you move the lever to F or R.
-we pulled the two check (or relief) valves on top of the unit and they are clean with good seals and the ball moves as it should in both valves.
-no leaks
-We can see the input shaft spinning beyond the fan and into the unit as it should

Where do we go from here?

How can we further troubleshoot ?

Is there a common failure with this type of issue ?

Thanks in advance for any help.....

Welcome to OCC.


Did you look here......??? Hydro Info

I've heard it mentioned before on the forum. When he ran it low on fluid, he may have sucked air into the pump. Try starting it, pushing the lever forward and pushing the machine forward a few feet at the same time. Kind of like a jump start for a hydro.

Also, you say the fluid is at the correct level and clean, but as the filter been replaced?

Wowie...does that trunnion look worn in one of his pics or what?! :bigeyes:

Yeah, it just kinda seems like were going around in circles there.....
I cannot verify yet if the rear cover was pulled, or if the shaft stops spinning under load.

I will also try to push the machine in "gear" to force any air through the next time I get the machine in front of me.

I saw that, in fact when I first looked at it, the "cam washer" that holds the spring captive (not sure what its called) was rolled 180 degree and not seated properly, I cant believe the spring didn't fly out.....

But this wouldn't cause the "no go issue"...would it ?
I thought this would cause erratic speed control (if you will)

No, just "erratic speed control".

I had two different tractors that broke the rear spirol pin and the driveshaft was still spinning , not sure how , but it wasn't spinning fast enough to build pressure to the pump.

I started to take the driveshaft out and when i took one of the rear spirol pins out it was broke in three pieces on one tractor and two pieces on the other. Replaced the pins and everything was good !!

Probably wouldn't hurt to check ALL of the pins first , including the front.

So your saying while its running and engaged, try to apply resistance to the shaft right at the input of the hydro unit.... ?

With the seat and fenders off, I'd verify that the rear end of the hydro's top shaft (over the differential, sticking out the back of the hydro) is turning the same as the input shaft. The connection to the input shaft is pinned to that shaft. Sometimes it's just a sheared pin that fails to transmit power from the drive shaft into the hydro itself. Other times it's internal to the hydro. but a sudden failure like that points to a sheared pin.

We did verify that shaft was spinning the whole way through....

But not under load. Friction can make it spin, but when load is applied and resistance to the shaft happens, it can stop/slow the spinning. It seems like this thread and your thread on the other forum have all came to that same conclusion; make sure the shaft is spinning under load. :beerchug:

Yes, we know you said it was spinning. What we are saying is that sometimes just the friction of the coupler with a sheared pin will spin the shaft. When you put a load on the hydro, it stops. SO..... take the tunnel cover off, or have someone look up into the back and see if the shaft stops turning when you try to move the hydro lever. OR, if you have the fenders off and can get to it, MOTOR OFF, grab the output shaft with a pair of channel locks, vice grips, or a small pipe wrench and see if you can turn motor with it. (I'm talking about the output shaft sticking out the back of the unit itself.

Now. If you find that the shaft is indeed coupled all the way through, then more than likely it is air locked or the filter is plugged. No matter the reason, I'd change the filter anyway. Unless they did that when they topped it off. Then, like jimbob said early on, start it, move the hydro lever to just creep forward a little and push the tractor a little. Usually moves about a foot and then the pump will prime.

If you do all that..... you should find the issue. If not, report back.

Yea I understand that,
I have not had a chance to test it under load, the above quote was an answer to the last question from the previous page "is the shaft spinning" and yes it is. Now I need to test it under load, hopefully I can get with the neighbor tonight to test this. Verifying the shaft spins with the lever engaged; it does and at the same RPM (seemingly), but again I will further test with the vise-grip / pipe wrench method and try to push the machine while engaged ASAP and report back.

Yes they did change the filter when they topped it off, I cannot verify that they used CUB HyTrans fluid, they said they got it at TSC and it said HyTran....

So if the unit is air locked and you move the that air pocket by pushing the tractor in gear.....Where does that air pocket go ? Is there an actual method for bleeding the system ?


Thanks for all the help so far gentleman.

The air will go back into the rear casing which fine; there is air in it anyway. You just don't want air in your hydro pump.

As for what fluid they topped it off with; chances are, you'll come out ok but if it were my machine, I wouldn't want to mix fluids. Again, if it were me, I'd pick a fluid (do not ask which one, it will completely derail this thread), change the hydro filter and fluid, and be done with that part of it.

Also, you are not "pushing the tractor into gear"; it's basically a hydraulic pump that makes it move, so you are essentially priming the system, i.e., removing any air from it, the same thing you do when you bleed your brakes on your car. A hydraulic pump cannot work with air in the system, so like burping a tupperware container, you need to remove the air from the pump. Once removed, you hopefully shouldn't have to mess with it again.

To find out if the rear spiral pin is sheared, you can take the little "flap looking cover" on the fender pan off (the one where the shifter would come through if it were a gear drive) you can see the actual input shaft on the transmission.

With the engine running, push the lever forward and watch down though the hole to see if the input shaft stops turning when the transmission starts to pull.