Got a 149 with problems.
 

Howdy all, I bought a 149 for fairly cheap from a neighbor for a project. Slowly I am fixing minute things. it runs, however I was told it burns oil. Also it blows some white smoke at start and stutters at high rpms. Gearheads at work mentioned rings or head gasket. i was wondering if a rebuild kit would fix my problem? Or I could there be a bigger or smaller Iissue?

Thanks
Mike

does the smoke smell like oil or old gas?

Hmm... smells oily to me, the guy ran some with it around the yard. I could drain the tank there isn't much in there. Doesn't oily smoke usually blow blueish?

generally oil burns blue, thats why i asked about the smell as old nasty gas burns a whiteish color. it breaking up on the top end of the throttle could also be from bad gas or the carb need rebuilt/adjusted

To me it seems like it could be more white than anything, I will drain the tank tomorrow and run some fresh fuel in it and see how it does then.

Fresh fuel did not help, still had smoke. I also drained the oil, it was nasty, and has some streaks of something in it, maybe it was gas?:bigthink:

Pulled the piston today, no rings were cracked or anything like that... what else can I look for? I'm going to grab a micrometer from work and mic the cylinder...

Anyone have the link to the manual that gives acceptable tolerances?

:bigthink:

It is in the Technical Library Section..... K Series Service Manual

Thank you! Lots of little areas to explore here!

I'm guessing this is the first motor you've ever taken apart.

Well, since you pulled it down, just start piling up your pennies to rebuild it. No need to go mic'n the bore. Just go find a shop and have them bore it. No sense in going that far and not doing it right. The shop will tell you how much it needs bored. No need to measure it.

No, before you ask, honing it and slapping a set of rings in it isn't a rebuild, and it's a waste of time. Do it right, the K series are cheap motors to rebuild. Done right they last, oh, around 25-40 years depending on they're use. (About 1500-2000hrs or more if you take care of them) :beerchug:

I agree with Jonathan,you tore in down this far take it to a machine shop and have it done right. It wont do any good to hone it and ring it,you'd just be wasting your money.

You got ahead of the ballgame :P I had quite a few people tell me just to put rings in it, but I also talked to some other small engine guys, and they also agreed with me, why go this far just to put rings in the thing?

I'll have to set out to find a machine shop... I already found multiple rebuild kits, and that was an anticipated cost.

Thanks!:biggrin2:

Yes it is! I was able to pick my father's brain until the point I got the piston out, and he says "I don't know anymore about any of this stuff, way beyond my knowledge" lol. This motor was so nasty with oil and junk though, yikes.

Question

Say I get the motor bored .010 over, do I need to do anything with timing? What about .030 over? What would each of these things net me? I found a machine shop that will do cylinder boring, hopefully it's something they can do while I wait in town. :coffee:

If you are in this deep something else to consider, is it better for them to put the block back together or can you borrow the needed tools to do it? Torque wrench, ring squeezer, valve spring compressor, have all these at your disposal? Sometimes I have found if you don't have everything needed, you are better off to let the machine shop put the long block back together. Depending on the shop, they can either order will fit parts or give you the option of ordering genuine Kohler parts and bringing the parts to them. We never order anything until the machine shop is done machining. Maybe they need .01, maybe it takes .030 to clean something up.

The farthest that I have gone so far is just to take the piston out, I haven't gone into taking the gears, crankshaft, valves, etc out.

Torque wrench I do have, the rest of the tools, doubtful. I will check with the machine shop on Monday or so to see what they say about parts.

As far as boring goes never bore further than you have to, its a waste that won't gain you any HP and you lose the ability for future rebuilds. Timing should be the same regardless of how much its bored.

Copy that. I suppose the machine shop will want me to pull the head at that point. They should be able to do valves for me then too. I'm going to ask them if they want the piston before they bore the cylinder also.

Yes they want the piston first, the block will be bored to match the piston.

:Morning: I agree with Olds on the boring part. Question, how did you get the piston out if you did not pull the head? Yes on the cly boring, a good machine shop will want the piston so that they can get the correct piston to bore clearance. Along with the valve job, have the machine shop check the valve guides also for spec. Also as stated by John Hall, if you do not have the correct tools for a rebuild, you will better off to let the machine shop assemble a short block and with the Kohler engine manual you can assemble the rest. :American Flag 1:

:Morning:Sorry Olds, i missed your post on the piston, or I would not have put it my post. :American Flag 1:

Or.....
I sell rebuilts:
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=30307

Forgot you offered that service!

Sometimes you just have to weigh the options. If you want to learn how to rebuild and engine and can borrow or afford the needed tools, this is a perfect time. Lots of smart cookies here that can guide you.

Sometimes it makes sense to hire the job done regardless of your equipment. We had to pull a tractor engine once that we knew had to be bored and sleeved back to standard. EVERYTHING in that engine needed replacing or re-machining. The only thing we did was to drain the oil and deliver the engine to the machine shop. We ordered standard pistons and whatever bearings it took to match the crank grind. I don't remember what the situation was regarding valves and springs. I do recall the head flunked the magna-flux test so we had to get one from a junk yard. When it was done we had paid a little more money, but got an engine that was rebuilt by professionals that would guarantee their work.

I used the wrong term, my bad...

I measured the inside of the cylinder this afternoon, it is still in-spec, and actually under-spec by just a bit. There are no scratches or marks on the inside of the cylinder at all.

Shoot me an email would you? I'd be interested to talk to you a bit more. And also like to hear what you think about my cylinder still being in spec.


If I can save having to spend that much to rebuild it, I will. Just trying to figure out what is bad and what isn't.

If you measured the cylinder and it was less than spec, you did it wrong. Can't happen.

If you want info on my engines, read the ad, PM or email me the info you want. I prefer e-mail for that kind of stuff.... easier for me. Price is their and most any info you would want to know. FWIW, I don't think I have any 14HP on the shelf that will work for you. I'd probably have to rebuild yours.

I've got to pass on the rebuild right now if it has to be a full rebuild, but I don't discount your abilities nor your experience. I'm going to shoot you an email.

Kohler manual says cylinder should be 3.500" +/- .005, mine measures out right at 3.495... is this not right?

If I could send it to you, and have it fixed with just a few things, instead of a whole rebuild, I would be fine with that, but what concerns me is having it get there and need a full rebuild...

Everyone says that about my price. Only question I have, is if you've never been in a motor before, are you prepared to deal with the possibility of a failure? Seen quite a few guys on here do it for the first time for it to lock up in the first 4 hrs of run time. Not pushing you to buy from me, (I do it just to help, not necessarily to make money) just like to see you have someone help since your a newbie.

The spec is close, but the measurement has to be wrong. No way it's 3.495. Not unless your the first person to run the engine, and the reason it is burning oil is the rings haven't seated.

What are you using to measure it?

No don't get my wrong I'm not trying to discount what you do, I shot you an email, if it will take less than a full rebuild i'll probably be game for you to do the work. I'm going to check locally also, because shipping both ways is going to suck terribly...

I'm using a dial caliper.

Yeeeesh... It'd be 100 bucks each way to ship. Yikes.

I wasn't meaning to chastise you. Just want it to go well for you. Like I said, I'm fine if you don't use me or my engine, but at least get help from someone.

$100 each way UPS. Fastenall is cheaper. Could probably get it for $100 total from them.

Dial caliper is not how you measure a cylinder. You need bore gauge or an internal micrometer. That's why your off. Caliper is not an accurate measuring device. Plus, all your measuring is the top of the cylinder where there is no wear. It is entirely possible that it is 3.495, but given the fact that calipers are not that accurate, I doubt the measurement altogether.

Here look......

.003" difference in my caliper and internal mic.

Attachment 55242

Solid copy. You're talking Fastenal the bolt/parts company right?

What condition do you need the motor in to ship it? It still has a bit of oil inside. What parts do I need to re-attach? I've got the carburetor off, etc...

No oil, and unless you want me to do more than the reciprocating assembly, I just need block, head, crank, rod (that way I can put a bearing insert in) cam, valve train and rear bearing plate. Then you finish assembly and break it in. All I do is take care of the "internal" stuff. (It will be returned with a full gasket set, obviously minus the bearing plate gaskets, head, and main seal because they will already be installed.)

So I need to take all of the gears out of the inside you're saying? You'll have to forgive me with all the parts stuff since I'm new to figuring this out...

You need the whole casing of the motor, the cast iron part, you need the aluminum head, you need the crankshaft, and....Ugh. Head is hurting.

Do you basically need the motor put back together, piston inside, rod bolted back in, all of that?

If you have it apart, I suppose you can leave it that way. I don't care about the balance gears, (if it has them) or the piston, they will just go in the scrap pile. :biggrin2:

I pulled the side cover off where the valves sit to see inside..

The exhaust side has black buildup inside that compartment, and the carb side has black build up in the chamber that the valve travels through to get to the top...

I shipped a complete 782 motor from MA to Iowa with fastenal for $50