vanguard 16hp in my 680?
 

Well I have this 680 and this 16hp motor laying around so I decided to put them together. I took some measurements from the wasted 14hp kohler and the 16hp twin fits in nice. My questions are what electric PTO and drive adapter ( the part that attaches to the fly wheel ) to use? The shaft is 1" , can someone suggest a model or part # I could use to find these on Ebay or the like? I'd like to buy used if possible.
Thanks for your help!

If any one has any thoughts or ideas on this mod please pass them along!

Dan

Well the 580 came with a Briggs so see if the clutch drive plate will fit the Vanguard from a 16hp opposed Briggs. You can make an adaptor plate from the clutch drive plate to a hydro drive shaft.

On the pto???? you may have to find a 1" pto for a Vanguard, just check pulley size for a match, 4" X 5/8" ???? I think???

Or any one with a 1" id bearing and then adapt it to the bolt pattern on the mounting plate to the Vanguard.

Scott

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...%20cub/CV1.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...%20cub/CV2.jpg

Here is an adaptor plate (1/2" steel plate) I made for my 982, Onan to a CV drive shaft, using simple hand tools.

Anything can be done.

Scott

Thanks for the reply! I found some pics of a 580, it looks like my 680,could I use parts from the 580 and make this a bolt in swap?? Are the frames the same? could it be as easy as finding a used drive shaft and related parts and PTO from a 580 and dropping this 16hp twin into my 680??:bigthink: Boy that would be nice!!

Dan

The 1641 was a bit later tractor that had a 16 hp vanguard in it. You could probably use the PTO clutch from that if the crank output shaft is the same.

The driveshaft from a 580 will not work because the 580 is not a hydro. The front rag joint just bolts directly to the flywheel through a couple of steel spacers. It looks like the vanguard engine has the same interface, or at least the version in the 1641 does.

Matt and Dan,

I'm posting in defense of myself-

I never look at things for what they are but for what they could be, just he way my mind works.

The part on the left is a Briggs drive plate with the pins removed. Card board in the center is a pattern for a 1/4" steel plate adaptor. Part on the right is a Kohler coupler adaptor that your 682 is already using, you have the part.

The drive shaft you now have will likely need to be shortened or modified one way or the other, that's a given regarless of what adaptor you use.

This plate would take me about 1 1/2 hours to make including cutting down the shaft and drilling a new pin hole. This set up will cost me nothing as I already have the parts.

I would cut the plate round, drill out the 1 1/8" hole in the center and then drill the three holes to bolt the adaptor to the drive plate. I would then drill and tap the four 1/4-20 holes for the rag/coupler adaptor that is already on the 682 (part to right).

I know I don't answer all questions this clearly, time does not permit, however I'm only showing that with simple tools you can adapt and make things work and work well.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...mommy/582a.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...mommy/582b.jpg
Scott

Also let me note that I have no idea if the Vanguard and the Briggs use the same drive plate/cup/adaptor, this you'll have to determine.

Scott

Scott-

There is no need to do what you've posted. The horizontally-opposed B&S in the 580 has the front rag joint bolted more or less directly to the flywheel...there's two 3/8" tapped holes that are the same distance apart as the holes in the rubber disc. See below parts 4 and 5:
http://cubcadetparts.arinet.com/Scri...&ilIF=P&ilRE=8
I can't say for sure if every B&S Vanguard has the same bolt pattern, but the parts diagrams for the 1641 make it seem plausible. That interface seems to be fairly common among Briggs engines.

Assuming all of this works, he'll need one 722-3001 rubber flex disc and two 711-3001, as well as the spherical ball bushing 741-3004, and none of the stuff you're showing.

Matt, Scott

First let me thank you for helping me in this project, the 680 came in pieces and did not have the drive shaft or related parts so this part of the mod is up for grabs. While I was searching I came across a link that someone had put a universal joint on the trans side (cubfaq.com) cool idea!

Scott, that adapter looks great! I will look around my garage what I can come up with, What do you think about putting two of the briggs drive plates together (like a flying saucer) then bolting the kohler coupler to that? I don't know if I have the tools to make that adapter (with out hurting myself) and keeping it centered. This is fun, I like the challenge! How is that CV joint made? Could I use something like that with the drive shaft and fab the trans side?

Thanks again guys!
Dan

Matt, there must be another part that connects to the flywheel that I cant find? The nut on the crank would be in the way, I see though how this would all work!

Can you post a pic of this part of the engine so we can see what you have?

Matt, hop this worked

Hmm...looks like you might be able to use #22 in this picture (719-3096) IF the CV joint driveshaft from the 1641 has the same bolt circle as the part in the second drawing I've attached:
http://cubcadetparts.arinet.com/Scri...&ilIF=P&ilRE=8

Use with 703-0204 (#39 below):
http://cubcadetparts.arinet.com/Scri...&ilIF=P&ilRE=8

This will only work if the CV driveshaft's bolt circle is the same as the adapter mentioned in the bottom drawing...Perhaps Scott can measure the CV joint bolt circle and the other part, since he has both?

Oh, and if you plan on doing any mowing, I'd pick up a flywheel screen for that thing, or you'll fill it with grass clippings and cook it.

I also saw that part# 22 and thought the same thing, I'm thinking that if that part will fit the flywheel and the drive shaft is 5/8 I could use the cv joint,shaft and #22,then do the u-joint mod I saw on cubfaq.com. The u-joint is real cheap compared to some of these parts from cub, part #42 I think was over 100 bucks ouch!

Yes the CV and the standard shaft adaptor is the same bolt circle.

If #42 is splined the answer is yes well over $100 from Cub. If not splined it's about $28 and the bushing is another $8 IIRC.

If you want the CV shaft at one end and the Ujoint at the other then contact Chris at cubclassics.com, he just got a 1882 in for parts and has the shaft.

Look for used parts, a standard complete rag shaft from cub will run you about $200 and a CV shaft....$$$$$$$$$$...don't know but maybe $300++.

Now all my shafts are double ragged at each end and the are $15 each so that right there is $60, last shaft I priced was $58, fan is $15, couplers another $20 each.....well it adds up. The only part I buy new are replacement bushings.

Somehow you need to get off that Vanguard flywheel and after that it's yours to deal with. So how you do it is up to you, all I was suggesting is to use your imagination.

Another thought is to get ahold of jimsrepair.com or something like that... just google 'tractor repower' and you'll find him. Jim sells repower kits and specializes in the Vanguard, he sells 'kits' but he should sell you just the drive hub for your VG, just make shure you tell him it's for a Kohler replacement so he gives you the right hub.

Just remember once you design your shaft and you start paying retail for parts it's gonna add up REAL quick like.

Scott

OH and on the CV you need at least 1/4" of free play end to end, The splined ends allow for this, there is a long splined end and a shorter one, use the long end and let it have it's slop.

#42 is not splined on a 680.

There's no need to buy all of this stuff new, or at least not the driveshaft itself. You can easily make one out of an $8 piece of cold-rolled. ...Dan, does the 680 have any of its driveshaft remaining? If not, you can probably figure about $100-$150 for the flex discs, spherical ball bushings, etc. It may seem like a lot, but you'll probably never have to do it again.

Just so you know, some of the hydro JDs had U-joint driveshafts, and I've heard they wore out frequently. The rag joint driveshaft will hold up just fine. The CV joint driveshaft parts will be very expensive should have to to buy anything new, as has been mentioned. If you go that route, I can almost guarantee there will be machining necessary to fit it, as this is not a factory motor/transmission combination.