1862 Let it die or rebuild
 

after getting the 1641 ready for work, brought the 1862 into the shop. Let marvel mo. do it's job over the week. Today I got the M18 to break free and spin. Almost tried to start and run it, but thought better of it and a good thing. Tore it down and this it what I found.

This motor has been tore apart before. evidence of something broke in the past. have not found any metal pieces in bottom end, But. Also rod on the starter side was binding a little, pulled the rod off the crank.

Jug and piston from the starter side don't look good either.

I think the crank will clean up alright, but I'm pretty sure I'll need a rod, jug, and a piston.

What the 1862 looks like before tear down. Not sure what's up with the Hydro, but looks like she got some leaks.

Just my 2 cents but you should run the numbers. From what I see the rear needs a reseal job. As far as the engine goes I'd be looking at a repower. Again just how I would look at it. If you can find a cheap 2185 they make good organ donors. Holler if I can be any help. How is the rest of the tractor?

I might have a jug for that side.u

I agree with Sam on a 2185 donor as the kohler Magnum Twins can get very expensive when overhauled properly. Going one step further, if you find a CH18 Command from a 2185 (or something else), removed the throttle limit pin on the side of the carburetor and re-adjust the governor making it a 20 HP.

Wowah, please expand on that with the ch! I'm interested. Will it hurt anything?

The Kohler CH18 and CH20 are the same bore/stroke and carburetor including jetting. If you remove the throttle limit pin and re-adjust the governor (as you adjust them at full throttle not running) it becomes a 20 HP. You are not turning more RPM's, your just adjusting the governor to bring the carburetor to wide open throttle under load. If you was to replace the mags, ignition module and flywheel with the advanced spark it becomes a 22 HP. You can just replace the flywheel as the magnets are advanced on the CH22 flywheel and that will get you 22 HP but if you don't install the mags/module it will sometimes kick back on the starter when starting as the module retards the timing at start up. You can also additionally add a CH 27 cam and make it a 23 HP. This reminds me of the good old pulling days when we were limited to a 18 hp in the stock class and how we could cheat (oops I mean interpret the rules) to our advantage.

Ok, have done some looking, and have found a 2185@ $1350.00 295 hrs, and a 2186 $450.00 unknown hrs. The 2185 pricey to be a parts donor. Will be looking at the 2186 this afternoon. It is running and cutting. So Sam I'll be in touch.

I agree the 2185 is way high, I hope that you can get a little better price on the 2186.

put the Mag back together, get it to start, tie a string to the gov and pull and watch the fun happen. then repower. lol

we do the string to the governor linkage thing all the time to Tecumseh junk engines that are going to scrap anyway. its fun!

Need a vid of the parts flying!

Going to try to save the m18. Cleaned up the pump and rear to see where that is. After I got it cleaned up, I put a drill to it. Hydro works axles turn steering deck lift all work. But there is a leak at one of the check valves? Sprays out pretty good. There is also a splinded shaft at the rear of the pump. Was a rear PTO an option for the 1862? Frame is in pretty good condition, so may just repower. The tractor I went to look at was I think a 2135? Had a 12hp.

No rear PTO on the 1862, just a common shaft on the pump.

Are the check valves serviceable? What would cause it to leak. From what I can tell that's the only leak.

This guy rebuilds the valves

Machtech Direct
605 Furnace Rd.
Conneaut Ohio 44030
Phone: 440-499-5813
Email: mark.machtech@gmail.com

E-Bay add
$35.00 each plus $4.95 shipping ($4.95 flat rate regardless of amount)
That's both valves rebuilt for only $74.95

I had an old-timer tell me he had a trick to clean the aluminum off of the crank journals. He would go to the hardware store for some muratic acid that is used for masonry jobs. Dip the crank journal in it and let the aluminum dissolve. A slight polishing was usually the only thing that was needed to clean up the journal afterwards

.........then resize the big end of the rod and your in business after you find out why the rod seized to start with!

Yeah, you can do that. But if the rod seized, then there's an issue. I've built a lot of engines, never seen a crank journal that had galded aluminum on it that didn't need ground. No reason to remove the aluminum if it's going to a regrinder. The crank grinder will take it right off.

I have done several twin magnum, series II and V twin commands with success (all pressure fed oil), but seldom got away with it on the singles as typically I think the crank on them were wore before they seized. I found it best to brush the acid on in a WELL VENTED area. I tried submerging one once and it ate in to the crank. My experience is clean it off with acid and a tooth brush, a quick polish with the back side of emery cloth and oil, then mic it. If it checks OK (with in .0005 of stock), use it providing it did not get so hot to dis-color the crank. In most cases I think the engine had an oil leak prior, and they ran it out of oil.

Fifty years ago.................................

I had a '56 Bel Air. Had a souped up 265 engine, Corvette solid lifter camshaft, 2X4 carburetors and a 4.56 axle.

I am driving down the road toward the house, just taking my time and I hear this really shrill SQREEEEEEEECH! I kicked the clutch in and coasted into the barn.

Pulled the pan. I had spun a rod bearing and locked the engine. So I pulled the rod cap, pried the melted rod bearing off the crank journal with a screwdriver. Dressed the heavy stuff off the crank with an old file. Didn't look too bad so I called my buddy in town and asked him to pick up a .001 O/S rod bearing, a strip of emery cloth and a pan gasket set.

I cleaned the crank with the emery cloth and got it smooth and clamped the rod back on the crank. Put the pan back on. New oil, new filter and fired that bugger up!:biggrin2:

I drove it for three months like that, sometimes revving to 7000 rpm in a drag race. After three months, I had saved enough money to buy a new 327 engine. The 265 was wounded when I pulled it out but it was still running okay.

Sometimes you gotta' do what you gotta' do!

:biggrin2:

Got to looking at the two halves of the block last night and found silicone in the oil passage just under the rear of the cam. So lack of oil to the crank bearing and the one rod caused the problem with the rod seizing. There is some discoloring of the crank for that rod.

Grind it.

Have you priced parts yet? Your not going to like it...... if you can find them. Pats small engines is your best bet. But, while your there, you really should check out the price of a new Command. Pretty reasonable.

I did some quick pricing...... Your looking at around $900 + in parts and machine work. And that price is including some guesses on NLA parts, machine work, and also the fact that OS pistons don't seem to be readily available for the M18. I bet you have well over $1K in it before your done, if you do it right.

Jonathan, you're proably right on the parts, however with so many M18s out there, you'd think the parts would be more readily available for it. What about Sten's? Do they have a selection of parts for the M18?

Nope. No one does.

The KT, Mag, and CH's are very similar, but parts availabilty is scarce for the KT and Mags. They really weren't designed to be rebuildable. You can tell that by the split crankcase, and the brass bearing insert for the crankshaft mains. I have several laying here, and I'm having a hard time trying to decide what to do with them. For my own use, they are worth rebuilding, but I'm willing to live with the consequence of a failure. If one did fail, it would be the first motor I ever built that did. But to rebuild them for resale....... you can buy a new Command for what that costs.

So, to the OP..... here's the question. Are you willing to bet $1K on your ability to rebuild an engine? ........... :bigthink: Something to think about.

That figures, I just passed on a 1811 for $400. But for that kind of $ for $1500 there is GT 1554 I think in Nashville. Have been looking for a 2185 as Sam has suggested and convert to the CH18. But have only seen one for sale. And that was too high priced to bee a donor. So no to doing anything with the mag. It's been rebuilt at least once. Not sure what I'll do with it now. It's been suggested I should pull the Vanguard out of the 1641 and repower the 1862 with it, but have beeen told the 16 horse would not handle the 54 " deck.

Just thinking outside the box, if I got a vertical shaft m18, would the internals work in a horizontal. I really don't see why they wouldn't. ???

A engine is designed to oil the internal parts the way its supposed to sit. If you turn it on its side it will not oil the parts and leak everywhere.

Some of the parts are the same yes. But usually the crankshaft on the verticals has a longer "nose" than a horizontal. I don't remember if the jugs are the same, but I think they are. Valves are the same, pistons, rods, cam..... most of it.

I wouldn't do that though. Just my :TwoCents:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/lawn-tractor...item19f12b43cd


Here is a 1811 for $250.00 in Ohio.

Just found an older Craftsman with a horizontal M18 for 200.00. would that work in the Cub? Have also found a 2185 not far from me for 300.00 but someone from Ala. has first dibs on it waiting for a call back. This will make #3 I've missed out on. :angry:

What's the model of the Craftsman? Some are swaps, we'll need more info.

Have not yet seen the Craftsman, Waiting on a reply on the 2185 before going to look at it. I think it is a Craftsman II 6000 Gt. 6 speed hi& low 44" deck. An older grey color, not the newer green. It is shaft drive with the shaft running off the flywheel end.

:bash2: missed another one going to look at the Craftsman.

Do a search (google, not just this site) and you'll find lots of info. I had looked into this briefly once and if I recall correctly, it should bolt in (as long as you've got the drive shaft coupler and engine mount plate, which you do). The only thing you'd need is a 1" PTO, IF I remember correctly. Again, do your research before you take what I say to the bank. :beerchug:

Thanks for the info. jimbob. I thought all mags had a 1-1/8 shaft. But I just found a 1811 for sale up in Scottsville Ky. for 400.00, 45 min drive. A bit pricy, but a motor for the 1862 and a 44" deck for the 1641?:beer2:

$400 is a good price for an 1811. If it's in good shape, I'd just keep it together. They are really good tractors. I like them better than the cyclops, but that's an opinion only. (I just don't like all the plastic.)

Exactly. It's not that it looks bad (again, opinion), but it's so prone to breaking if you don't take care of it and aren't careful. But, that is another discussion for another thread.

I agree with J; the 1811 is a solid machine, and I'd hate to see it parted out if there isn't anything wrong with it. I'd say get it, use it, and put the Cyclops on the backburner until you find a suitable engine for it. Good luck whatever you do :beerchug: