1200 Mowing Speed
 

Howdy folks. I just read through a post where a new 106 owner was asking about reducing gear ratios, and there were some good answers there. In my case, being used to mowing with hydros (except for my ford tractor and a bushhog), I noticed that even in first gear at WOT, it seems a little fast. I can see the beauty of having good sharp blades if your mowing that fast. I dont have the creeper attachment. Is the creeper attachment the best option for going slower? Reducing the throttle doesnt seem like a good answer, our grass is pretty demanding when it gets thick! I just need to slow down a little to mow the thicker growth. I guess I could just jump on one of the hydros, but this new 1200 is too much fun! Thanks, TB

Mow more often. :biggrin2:

:IH Trusted Hand: What that guy said! :biggrin2:



Edit: Or mow a little higher?

Or get a creeper gear.

Thats not always an option, here in PA we're getting one thunderstorm after another so im only getting to mow every 7 or 8 days and my grass is over a foot tall in that time.

Then mow higher, and then mow it again. This really is not a gearing or tractor problem guys. It's a use your head kinda thing.....

but a creeper wouldn't hurt,not like using your head to cut grass...:biggrin2:

:ThumbsUp: That is true..... :biggrin2::beerchug:

Ok tough crowd lol, perhaps the question was not worded properly. The point is, is that some areas of my mowing area gets thick, not to be confused with tall. This new to me 1200 moves alittle too fast in those areas. Yea yea mow more often I get it, I mow 9 or 10 months out of the year as it is! Im just feeling out this new 1200, looks like a creeper might be the answer to making THIS mower do what I want it to. My "yard of the month" ribbons like ya'll have are going to be stripped from me! TB

bcdsfcret
 

Raise the mower deck and mow it twice or only take half the mower deck width.
Brian

A creeper will be silly slow to mow with and they're not cheap. You can just about buy a running Hydro cub for the cost of the box. It would be handy for other stuff but I think for mowing it would be pretty useless.

^I agree completely... I find myself wondering how people were able to mow with them in the '60s and that's the answer I keep coming up with. I even have to do that with my hydro from time to time.

I would get a creepy gear so that you can use it for other chores as well. It will also add value to your cub. It sounds like you are having fun with your 1200 already, so with a creepy you would have even more fun!

Cub Cadet 123

buy a hydro model

LOL thanks guys. I have 4 or 5 mowers, all hydros, including a Cub 1811, and a massey 1655 (1977 model, not the new ones)that will not bow down to any grass height. But yea, cmon guys, the question was not about mowing technique (and thanks, those are all good suggestions that we have all been using for many many years of mowing). Just was wanting to know how to slow this 1200 it down, that's all. Sounds like a creeper is the answer. And by the way, for those of you who have septic systems, you may understand the "thick" vs "tall" grass thing....:biggrin2: Thanks again, TB

Most advice, when the whole crowd gets involved, usually involves, spending other people's money. In this case YOURS. We had an "O", many years ago, mowing other people's grass. And yes there were times when the blades and deck, just could not get rid of the grass, as fast as 1st gear traveled, and we tried all the "helpful hints". A much lower gear would have been wonderful from time to time. Do it your way. Because, let's face it. You are the one that has to live with the results. Advice (counsel) is great, but eventually, you have to make the final choice. :GoodLuck:

I used to mow in 2nd gear with my 1200 all the time 44A deck 2 1/2 cutting height. Sometimes 2nd was to fast and 1st was to slow. Always thought a creeper would be a good idea too.

Try dropping down your RPM's a little bit and see if there's improvement.

Bad idea. Slowing down the engine slows down the very important tip speed of the blades. While it may slow the tractor down a bit, it's going to slow the blades down more. Slower blades = worse cut job.

Have you TRIED it? Used to have a tractor (other than CC) where machine would get bogged down with too much forward speed.... Only one speed forward and one reverse. Old man next door sat on porch and watch the comedy and said "cut your revs a bit and see if that works!" It worked for me with that tractor. Try it and see what happens! You never know!:beerchug:

Yeah. It cuts the tip speed down and it won't cut. Just like Ryan said.

Has no one here ever driven a gear drive tractor? :Unknown::Forgot:

I'm that guy. I'm thinking about buying one of the 20% underdrive reduction gears from Brian Miller at tractorpullingtips. But it would be much better if you did it first and reported back how difficult it was to install, and how well it worked. :ThumbsUp:

Seriously, it sounds like a 20% reduction might be just the ticket.

David

Buy a creeper!


Go ahead and buy a reduction drive. I'll be laughing it up when you guys are taking your trannies back apart to put the original gears in because now it's too slow, and you can't shift gears. At least with a creeper, you can shift back into direct drive.

I'm done. Have at boys!

A few things perplex me here.

It's not a separate reduction drive. All Cubs, IIUC, have a reduction gear before the transmission. I'm talking about simply lowering the ratio a little bit, by 20%.

Not a very neighborly attitude.

A 20% reduction lowers the speed in 1st from 2.3 mph to 1.8 mph. Doesn't seem that dramatic.

Why would this be any different than shifting gears with the original reduction ratio? I'm lost here.

With a different reduction gear you're always in direct drive, just rolling 20% slower.

Are we talking about the same thing?

David

I have owned a gear drive 102 with a creeper since the mid 70s. In case you do not know how a creeper works here goes. First with the creeper in low JMech is correct you absolutely should not shift gears. To do so you must stop, shift the creeper into neutral or high then shift the tranny then shift the creeper. What you cannot do is shift gears in the tranny like going from first to second while in low range. You do have six forward speeds but mowing in second high and then shifting into low range will not make it a little slower, it will make it a lot slower. Ground speed in 3rd low range is just a little slower than 1st gear high range. I very seldom ever used the creeper while mowing but it was a real asset when blowing snow although changing from a forward gear to reverse was more than just moving the tranny lever.

Anybody thought of a speed-up pulley for the deck? :bigthink: Same forward speed but higher blade speed = better cutting of thick grass.

I'd have to check the parts books but I thought there were 2 different pulleys that worked on the 44/50 in decks. 1 was faster

I replaced the pulley on my 44C deck with a larger pulley (went from 4" to 5" I think) so I could use it with my 1450. Made it a 44A deck I suppose? Belt size is different, too. I think the 44C used a 5/8 belt (for the 82 series tractor) while the earlier used 1/2 or 7/16 belts. Something like that. ccspecialties.org or ihccwh.com should have the pulley you need.

A larger pulley on the deck would make it slower, you must have went from 5" to 4"

I replaced the reduction input shaft in this 1200 because the yoke area was wore our. Removing and replacing the shaft was very easy, the gear is right there and looked to be easily removed as well, but I didnt remove the gear. HOWEVER, befor anybody has to go change thier depends,:biggrin2: I will NOT be changing the shaft or gear in an attempt to reduce gear ratios. I do have a rotted out 50C deck from my 1811 (I have a 50" on this 1200) with good hardware. I'll check it out and see if the drive pullys are different. Good idea. Thanks TB

I think the creeper is very handy when mowing, when we first move to our house the grass was 6 inches taller than the hood on the 100 i had at the time but with the creeper in low and the trans in first i was able to take the full deck width without bogging the engine.

I'll lend my 2 cents. I have a 126 with a 42" deck and located in VA. If my grass had any height or thickness I could not get a good cut in first gear and the deck would stop up.

I tried raising the deck and cutting twice, didn't really help. I had to cut half widths and mixed results. Making sure the blades are sharp and deck adjusted correctly helped but didn't completely solve the problem.

I ended up installing a creeper gear which helped a lot. Third gear creeper low worked well. Occasionally 2nd gear creeper low was needed. The creeper also allowed my to use our snow blower which was a nice bonus.

Word of caution, shifting is difficult. You will need to shift the creeper into neutral in order to change gears. My yard requires a lot for backing up so I have to shift the creeper a lot.

Now I only use my 126 for rough cutting along the road and I use my 782 with 44C for my yard. Hydro helped with speed and the 44C doesn't stop up as much.

I also have a 46GT deck I use with a bagger for leaf removal in the fall. That deck cuts great! Only down side is it is noisier than the 44C and takes more fuel to run.

Chris

You should not have to do that.there is no neutral on a creeper and will damage it eventually using it that way. If you have an issue shifting using the gear shifter your clutch adjustment needs to be checked.RTFM it is in there on how to use a creeper.

My 86 has a creeper and I mowed with it yesterday using the creeper in high spots and I did not have to shift the way you described in your post.

Yes, of course, you're correct. Reduced the pulley size. Duh!

I've got a 126 with a 48 inch deck and while it does a great job mowing, the gear ratios in the tranny are not that great IMHO. Keep in mind that I live in VA where there are lots of hills, so it's not dead flat like other places where one probably could run really fast.

1st gear is to slow for mowing, it is to fast for close trimming and 2nd gear, while again I get a great cut and FAST, is really to fast for my bumpy, hilly and obsticle filled yard. 1st gear is 2.3 mph, 2nd gear is 3.9 mph.

For a comparison, I've got a Wheelhorse gear drive garden tractor and 1st gear is 2.0 mph and 2nd gear is 3.2 mph. 2nd gear is very comfortable and controllable for mowing and 1st gear is nice for trimming. This tractor has a low range and where I use it, as I would an IH creeper, is when I am pulling against a building or somewhere where if the clutch slips, I've got dented sheet metal or I'm going over the hood. Remember - there are no trip springs on a mower deck!

I have considered getting a 1x8 Cub Cadet as the 2nd gear speed is 3.5 mph and I seem to recall that the 582 Cub Cadets (maybe the CCC ones) have a 3.3 mph speed.

I can see, back in the day, that if one were buying a new IHCC and they test drove a gear drive model like the 126, they might move over to a hydro just to slow things down from 2nd gear or speed things up from 1st gear and hey - every hydro has a creeper built-in!

That's my story and I"m stickin' to it!!!!!

Bill

your 126 has a 19t 2nd gear, the 1x8 has a 19t second. so they will be the same ground speed since they have the same size tire and the engines turn the same rpm. the 582 is slower. it has a 17t second. early 70/100 models had a 16t second. they are interchangeable from one trans to another

Sounds like my situation exactly.

This replacement reduction gear I mentioned also sounds like it would solve your problem, and for only $120. It would lower 1st gear speed to 1.8 mph, and 2nd gear to 3.1 mph, essentially the same as your Wheelhorse.

David

Are you sure? I got my mph info from the IH operators manuals and a quick look see at the tranny diagram on parts tree shows a 17 tooth 2nd gear for a 128. I'm thinking the gear drive 1000 and 1200 models were 17 tooth too.

David - interesting approach, thanks!

I just went and looked at, and measured the drive pulleys on my rotted out 50C deck. They measure about 4 3/4 across. The pulleys on the 1200 are an even 5. The pulley on the 50c deck does not look original, like it had been replaced in the past, but before I got it. Might be worth messing with. I need to replace those butter knifes on the 1200 anyway. Its been raining for 3 days now, might not get to that for a few days, But I'll let ya'll know if it works. Thanks, TB

[QUOTE=leeave96;269739]Are you sure? I got my mph info from the IH operators manuals and a quick look see at the tranny diagram on parts tree shows a 17 tooth 2nd gear for a 128. I'm thinking the gear drive 1000 and 1200 models were 17 tooth too.


every 108/128 I've ever taken apart had a 19t. I've taken allot of them apart to put 16 or 17 tooth sets in them. even the IH manual I have shows a 17. I always suspected something was messed up during a printing. 582, 1000 & 1200's also had 17t

X-2, never had to do such a thing. As Lew said, "there is no neutral on a creeper"
When I use my 122 with creeper there are spots I use the low range. Stop the tractor shift from 2nd to 3rd, just as you would if in the high range. Definitely sounds like a clutch adjustment issue.