1641 with some issues
 

Hello fine folks,

I'm new to the forum, and Cub Cadet family. My dad bought a new mower recently, and handed over his '92 1641 to me. It has the 16HP Vanguard engine. It was smoking pretty badly, and going through oil fast. He had already replaced gaskets around the valve covers. Thanks to this forum, I narrowed the oil down to the oil fill tube. There was no o-ring on the cap, and the threaded one at the bottom was rotted out.

So I had it running, mowed my yard, and my sisters twice, oil issue seems better. Started up last Tuesday, after putting a new belt on it, ran maybe one, and half lap, and it didn't sound right. When I would switch on the PTO, it seemed real hard on the motor. I shut it off right away. Saw metal shavings in the front. Pulled the PTO yesterday, and found the bearings shot. I went ahead, and bought a PTO for $200. Put it in, no problem.

Somehow, in the meantime, I got a new problem. Went to start it up today, but it just won't. Turns fine. I thought it wasn't getting spark, but that seems fine. It's like it isn't getting any fuel? I took the air filter off, and if I add gas directly to the carb, it will run, but sputter out, as soon as it burns off. I seem to be getting good flow, but can't figure out the problem.

Sorry for writing a book here, but I'm at a loss. Was running great, other than the smoke a couple weeks ago. Maybe someone has already addressed this, and I've missed it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Neil

:Welcome2:

If you can pour gas in the carb and it runs, then it isn't getting fuel.

Could be:
*Plugged fuel filter
*Bad fuel pump
*Plugged fuel line
*Gunk in the tank (plugged outlet)
*Plugged carb
*All the above

Probably time to pull the fenders, tank, carb and do a complete fuel system flush. I recommend replacing the fuel lines, filter while your at it. You can try blowing out the lines and see if that fixes it, but usually this is just an indication that there is either crap in the fuel system, or a part failure. Better off to do the flush and head off future problems. That way, she runs when you need it. :beerchug:

Welcome to OCC!:beer2:

I'm wondering if when you changed the PTO you somehow got the fuel shutdown solenoid for the carb disconnected?

That was my thinking.

Neil

See if you can hear a click under the air cleaner when you turn the key to the run position. Don't crank it just to run and let us know what happens.

Welcome to OCC! Good luck with your 1641. :beerchug:

I don't know if I had it disconnected, but it was definitely not clicking. I took the air filter off, and listened to the carb. no click. I took the top of the carb off, and saw what I believe is the solenoid. (forgive me, I'm pretty green on small engines) I took out the floater, and poked around with a screwdriver, gently. It moved a little. I turn the key to "on" position, and sure enough, it clicks, and moves back.

I put the carb back together, and she fired right up! I mowed the whole lawn this morning, with no problems, before work! I may still take apart some of the fuel lines etc... just to be sure nothing is clogged. Should I take apart the solenoid to clean?

I think I attached a couple pictures one is of the 1641 (not a very good one, I was actually trying to get the deer in the background.) The other is the PTO.

I forgot to mention. I think I may have had some bad gas. Aside from the tacos I had eaten (drumroll...), I had used a old can I had. I drained the tank, and put new stuff in it.

Could the bad gas, have cause the solenoid to act up?

Thank you so much guys! My dad got this tractor new in '92. You all have already helped me get it running better. It's fun, especially since I spent many hours on this thing as a teenager, whether mowing, or pushing snow, when we lived in West Michigan.

Neil

Great news! Glad you got your 1641 running. Bad gas isn't good for an engine.

Neil

If the gas has ethanol in it sometimes it will gum up the carbs. If it was me I'd get some SeaFoam ( you can get it at Wally World or most auto parts stores) and run some of that for this tank of gas to clean out the fuel system. If that solenoid gives you anymore trouble you can unscrew it out of the carb and cut the tip off with a pair of side cutters then screw it back in. Don't lose the seal.

Think you got all the good out of that PTO bearing. :beerchug:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the PTO bearing got its full use! Now I just have to adjust the brake, & try to fix the loose steering.

One last question. I fired it up this evening, just to check it out. When I switch on the PTO this evening, the amp light comes on very slowly until it stays lit. Didn't light up at all this morning. The battery is a few years old, but I want to make sure I didn't do something wrong installing PTO. I used an impact to get it on and off.

Thanks again, guys!

Neil

The charge light on Vanguard powered stuff is a very common issue. Check this thread.
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=32504

Glad to see you taking the time to save the 1641.

1641 bissues ?
 

I'm no expert, but my experience with small engines is, if they have "gasohol" and it sets in the rubber fuel lines, it will flake off and tend to plug carbs. I don't pretend to understand the chemistry, and for sure don't want to knock ethanol, as I do use it in my buick, but I believe it can cause these problems with rubber lines, thanks, Rich

I didn't even know you could find gas without ethanol. I will say this, I've been using a 2003 White/MTD for the last few years, and it isn't even close to this 1641. I'm quite sure you all already know this. It has a lot more power, and a nice smooth cut.

My dad stopped by the other day. Now that it's not smoking, and running smoother, I think he's a little sad he parted with it!

Neil

Try this to find ethanol free gas near you. http://pure-gas.org/

I never use ethanol gas in my small engines. They don't get run enough to keep it fresh. My pickup and car OK.

How about that. You learn something new every day! There are a couple places relatively close to me.

I doubt anyone cares, but just an update, still working out some bugs here, and there with the 1641. The engine's still was a little rough, but much better over the weekend, after finding the fuel shutoff solenoid issue. I'm going to adjust the spring on the brake this evening when I get home.

The steering has proven to be a bit elusive thus far. I've seen threads showing the bolt that comes loose. I'd like to say mine seems loose about halfway down the shaft? I haven't diagnosed the problem yet, though.

One question. I discovered that I might have a little leak on the rear end at the hydro. Is that pretty common as well?

Other then that, seems to be coming along nicely! The only other thing bugging me is the hood, and sides. Purely cosmetic, but I'd like to figure out a way to keep the hood down while riding without a bungee strap...

You guys have already helped me much more than you could know!

Neil

Well she's been running good for several weeks, largely because of all of you. However, I went out to start her this weekend and... Nothing again. I pulled off the air filter and carb. Cover just to check the solenoid all seems good there. My next thought was the battery. I threw a charger on it, but I'm not sure it was actually charging it. It won't turn at all. Just the one click each time.

The PTO light comes on when I turn the key. Does it always do that, or do I have something there?

I can manually grab the pulley and turn it with my hands.

Any help would be wonderful! I've messed with it the last few days, but can't find the culprit.

If the PTO is off and the light is on something is wrong. They are not supposed to start with the PTO on. Part of the safety interlocks.

I checked it when I got home from church this evening. Followed the wiring from the PTO at the front of the mower back to the switch. I cant find any bad connections. You suppose it could be the switch itself.

I did change the PTO when I first got the mower maybe 6 weeks ago, so I assume it isn't there, but could I have gotten something messed up? I just used an impact to get it off, and popped it back on the same way.

hmm... Busy week at work, I don't know how much time I'll have to look at it, before next week. Only problem is my lawn is becoming forest-like...:bigthink:

Sorry for a second post, but am I safe to assume it is not the battery? If it's very low, would it not be able to turn anything?

You sure the PTO switch isn't on?........:bigthink:

The PTO switch is off. If I turn the key to on, I can flip the PTO switch, and it will click. Then it clicks again when I turn it off, pretty normal. Unless somehow the PTO is messed up at the front of the mower, and is causing it to not start. Maybe if I pull it off, and try to start it, I might find the issue?

PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send you the Cyclops service manual. Think it will be helpful to you.

I have had similar starting circuit difficulty. I have found poor electrical contacts within the black fuse holder near the battery and at the starter switch. My issues have been random so I hope I have finally found the responsible connections.

I might need to clean up my connections, as the oil that had been all over had left things pretty grimey.

That being said, I checked out the wiring diagram, and was looking at the PTO chain. I thought it could be the relay, or the switch. Then I looked at the starting chain. The solenoid below the battery was the culprit. It may be going. I figured I tap on it (heck, it's worked on my car...). Sure enough, fired right up! Not sure my neighbors appreciated me mowing after dark though.

It appears that when I am starting, the PTO disengage light does light up until the tractor starts. Like a basic dummy light. Or maybe, I'm the dummy.

Why not? ethanol is the worst thing to happen to internal combustion engines - especially those with a carb! Further, the mandate for its use is nothing but political, as research and just plain reality play out that it does nothing to help the environment (and indeed results in LOWER efficiency) - so its basically an ugly scam...

But - that being said, one can use some the ethanol fuel stabilizers and at least mostly mitigate any further damage. But yes, rubber is particularly damaged by alcohols.

Your a new member I see, so please bear with me...... but you have no idea what your talking about. You read too much on the internet.


It may in fact have been shoved down our throats, but the fact remains that we found an alternative to gasoline and, like it or not, it's here to stay.

I also want to point out, this is a year old thread......