repower
 

Hey going to pick up an 1811 tomorrow with a M-18 that I'm going to use and re-power my 782 with. Ya buddy, this will be a summer project to freshen up the mag rings and lap the valves and anything else it may need :biggrin2.gif:

You'll need to swap harness and switch too, two different ignitions.

Scott

You can change out the wiring harness if you want to or you can make a small modification to the 782 wiring. A simply relay and a small amount of wring changes will make a M-18 work just fine in a 782.

:IH Trusted Hand:

got the 1811 home shes a little rough but have 75lb compression on both cyclindes so was happy about that, soo she should be good with a ring job. i just want the motor and any wiring i may need other than that not sure what to do with whats left over? ill post up some pic laiter

Hood, tunnel cover, rear and pump, brakes, drive shaft, rags, side panels....etc are all worth money...grill, headlight screen.....dash.... Lots of good parts if the parts are good. Sell here, elsewhere, ebay, CL......

You may want to keep them for replacement. Nice to have a second set to paint up and decal for future repaint without losing use of the tractor for longer period of time...you get the point.

Listen, the small parts will nickle and dime you to death later so be careful of what you dispatch.

Scott

rwire,

If you have an extra CCC grill emblem that's in good condition I'll buy it from you.

Scott

just a pic of the 1811 and murph no grill emblem sorrey also note the custom cup holder lol
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...5/100_2712.jpg

Good luck with your 1811, rwire125! :beerchug:

got the motor pulled outa the ol 1811 pulled the heads and looks like she will need a bore job, scratches on one side look to be to deep to just hone out, im sure i can get away with .010 over but that means new pistons so maybe ill be lookin at a 19 mag when its done lol :bigthink:

FWIW,
Those cyl's/pistons show up on evil pay @ times if you are not in a hurry. Possibly that would save a bore & pistons.

there is a set of jugs on there now, but with everything thorn down not sure if he even knows what pistons went in wich jug, but new kohler pistons and rings are more than i thought they would be, so far im at 80 for bore n hone around 200 new pistons n rings and about 80 bucks for new gasket set, but whats up with sten pistons half the price of kohler?
:bigthink:

Go cheap with Stens. Remember you have no idea of the rod ends and crank if you are only doing the jugs and increase in compression will put more stress on already worn rods soooooo...why spend the big bucks? Stens pistons will be fine and if you get another 300 hours out of it...well...that's good IMO.

Scott

BTW I have a M18 sitting here with pitted cylinders because the PO let it set outside and water got in, lose plugs possibly. I'll be doing the same as you eventually and I'll go with the Stens. Also remember that when a rod goes it takes a jug with it...just wouldn't put a lot into it if you are not going all the way.


Scott

Ya know, you could just hone and replace the rings and clean up the valves, new head gaskets and get out of it for around $50. I know you said one bore has a scratch in it but you'll likely get back to 95lbs+++ and still get a couple of years use out of it. Just a thought.

Scott

You can swap pistons between the jugs and with new rings there should not be a problem.
But you do need to keep the jugs on the correct side as they do not interchange on the later engines.

your probly right, ive not built alot of engines and mostly motorcycles so not really sure what i can get away with hear, but know im not wanting to split the case and go after the crank n rods then heck might aswhell just get a new engine, but the scratches in 1 jug are not that bad ive seen worse but still enough to catch a fingernail on and about 4 of them approx 1/4 apart,so are you thinking if i was to just hone and then go with org size rings or .003 over? not sure how much you would increse bore size buy just honeing. and do you have a sorce for sten? you have brought up varry good points and have given me much to think about, and thank you for your input, think im going to pull the scratched jug and take it to the bore shop and get there opion on it allso and really needed to know if i do decide to bore what oversize set to get was thinking a .020 just to be sure everthing would clean up good thanks agine Scott

FWIW:
Lets see if we can help with some terms:
When re-ringing to standard size rings, cylinders are deglazed, to allow the new rings to seat properly.
Also if there is a large ridge @ the top of the cyl. it needs to be removed, as if left it can cause a new top ring to break.

You really don't want to hone a cyl, as that usually implies going oversize.
Most shops will use a Hone to achieve .010 oversize or more.
They will speak of boring/honing to oversize to achieve the proper cross hatch pattern, but most just use a hone and not go to the trouble of boring first, then honing.

Can you post a good pix of the Scratches in the Cyl. you are concerned with?
Possibly we can tell if it can be left alone with just deglazing or needs to be addressed, by going oversize.
Small scratches that don't go the full length of the ring travel most times can be left alone with no appreciable problems later.

George
I just pulled the cyclinder in question, ill bring it to work tonight a get it cleaned up (solvent tank) then ill try tomorrow and see if i can get a good picture of it, thanks George i didnt know just hone would take a bore that far over

If you stop to think of it,
.010 oversize in reality is .005 on a side.
You usually leave after boring, about .002-.003 for honing.
If a bore is worn a little or just minor scoring, it is just easier to forget about the boring,and associated set up time, and just hone it to finished size.

Now if the bore is egg shaped or tapered excessivly, or a person wants to go .060 oversize,then it must be bored to true it up and or remove the larger amount of material.
Remember a human hair is maybe .002 to put it all in prespective. :)

You can save a little money by going with an aftermarket gasket set, too. I think the last one I bought was $35 or so, and the seals it came with were identical to the ones I was getting in Kohler bags from my CC dealer. It does not appear that there are aftermarket oversize pistons for the M18 and M20. You can, however, get aftermarket ring sets fairly cheap. There are no 3 thou over rings...the 3 thou over pistons use the standard rings.

I have an M18 all in pieces back home...I bought a vertical shaft MV16 very cheap (same jugs, rods, and pistons as M18) and I'll be using them with new standard rings. The crank I'm using was freshly turned before the engine tossed a rod, and it's in good shape. I bought new aftermarket rods for it. Someday, I'll find the time to put it all back together....

Matt is correct, on the gasket set,
but on my M-18 it requires sealer instead of gaskets other than the cylinder heads/intake/exhaust.
You don't want to use a gasket set where it is designed for sealer.
And make sure you retorque the head gaskets after it is fully warmed up. Other wise you will be replacing the gaskets again. BTDT!!
Leave the head shrouding off and warm it up and retorque, you will be amazed at how loose they have become.

This is why it's important to order the correct gasket set and take note of where gasket sealer is used when disassembling the engine. I think the switchover to gasket sealer occurred near the end of the KT-17 production or slightly after the beginning of M18 production.

This place has piston/ring kits that are standard, +.003, +.010 ,+.020, and +.030.

http://www.kohler-engine-parts.opeen...sort=1a&page=2

I've used these folks,
good prices and no complaints :beerchug:

yup ive search for kohler pistons and opeies came up, also upon disasembly i did note the sealer used insted of a base gasket, ive not seen of after mkt gasket sets? and i did find a guy north of me that was recomended by two dealers and his prices wher pretty good copared to the guys in the big city, 75 to bore set and install the rings and 50 to grind the valves, I had a late night at work 2nd shift and didnt get home till 4am so im having a hard time getting out to the garage to get pictures of the jug i cleaned up last night but it looks like the piston scuffed the side wall and 1 scratch is a bit deeper than org thought but forsure will get some pictures of it, now ive had my bowel of oatmeal and think im going back to bed lol need my beauty sleep its heck to get old and still keep up with the yung pups all night :ThumbsUp: oh and do you guys that funky dog leg wrench when ya torq the jugs bach on? cant get a strait shot at it to torq or use a crows foot?

I used an open/box as I didn't have a dog leg wrench, to tighten jugs to block.
After all these years turning wrenches, proper tightness is second nature.
but I can't over stress the need to re torque the heads properly after they have heated up to operating temp. I didn't do that the first time, and had to replace the head gaskets, then I re torqued after hot and that worked with no problems.
I did both times use Stens after mkt. gaskets, not Kohler

the scratches look worse in the picture than they really are and the piston shows the scuff area, and by reading my last post i must have been out of it lol
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...5/100_2715.jpg
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...5/100_2716.jpg

Well I already have a ridge reamer, a hone, and a ring compressor/sleeve. I'd go the $50 route and put her back together, just my opinion.

Either spend the $600 and get her done right or go with what you got.

Bore and hone and valves and crank turn, gaskets, new rods and pistons and rings, new governor, etc....without pricing it...my guess is around $600 and you do the work.

Bear in mind also these do have a reputation for losing a governor and when they go they take the whole motor with it.

$50.

Scott

I go along with the re ring and run it theory,
I'd deglaze the bore, clean up the piston, and put in after mkt. Std. rings.
It looks like the P.O. abused the oil change interval, and the worn rings allowed carbon to build up and scratched the bore/piston.
Worst thing can happen is it will use a bit of oil on that hole, I've seen/used much worse.
You will not have that much ($$) in it going this route, and @ a later time if you want to go all out, you haven't lost that much.
I'd look @ the valves just to see what they look like as you have it on the bench.

My understanding is:
You are going to put this in as a repower and you will have incidental/additional expenses.
after you get it running and use it some, you will get a better idea what your long term plans might be.
This is just what I'd do, others will have their views.
Luck!

ok so its sounds like the rering is the way to go, what is the proper way to deglaze the cyclinder? and then ill just lap the valves and set the proper clearence get some new gaskets and was thinking is it advisable to or ealsy doable to put in new front seal or rear as long as i have the engine out? thanks for your input on this guys,how big can the ridge at the top of the bore be BF i need to consider a ridge reamer? i dont have a ridge reamer or a hone for that matter and in the past ive just sliped the jugs over the rings compresing each one as i go on motorcycles

You may want to consider looking for a set of decent used pistons because that one doesn't look too good, unless it's just the picture. The skirt has a lot of scoring and the area above the top ring looks like it got hot. I would mic the pistons as per the manual and see how worn they are.

On the valves: they are adjusted by grinding the end of the stem,
You can download the manual free from Koehler, --do this.
A deglazer is rentable or avail @ auto parts/sears.
they make a cheap one that looks like a bottle brush that has abrasive balls instead of bristles.
I like sears spring loaded with replaceable stones but I have used ones that use emery cloth.
If the ring land is very minor, you can possibly get away without using a ridge reamer, like on the motorcycles you mentioned working on.
But if there is a ledge that the ring will hit on, it has to be removed,
I have chamfered them with a leather stone in a die grinder successfully.
But experience is the key here.

Hey RD, got ya figured out now:)

Yeah on the 982 front end, front may track wider than the rear though, might want to look for some Super rears too. On the GT front wheels you'll need to use 2 machine shims to take up the difference on the spindle, 1" ID can be bought at TSC.

BTW I've done just that on my project 1706, I'll post pics soon.



Scott

Also, keep in mind that if you use a super front axle, you will probably have issues mounting all of your attachments, as the tractor will be sitting much higher.

yup Scott ya found me and thanks for your reply, i would like to see some pictures of that project

Not really an issue for me as long as i can atleast fit a snow blade

That's going to be one attachment that won't fit right anymore...I doubt that the much larger super front axle will clear the subframe. Also, it'll ride lower than it would have with the original front axle, changing the geometry of the blade-- it'll be angled down more and have a tendency to trip easier.

Well the same 54" that was on my 1872 will run on my Sub Super, it's gonna.:)

If I'm not mistaken the 1863-4s used the Super Steer front axles with the 54" deck to provide front clearence, move the spindles forward an inch or so.

Scott

The cyclops tractors with the super steer front axle also use a different snowblade subframe, which is probably what he'll need to find.

I would replace the pistons and rings by the looks of the piston in the picture. The upper left top/edge is burnt and the piston skirt has marks on it. If the piston is shows wear the cylinder will have wear too. One of your ealier post make comments about fingernail getting caught on a scratch in one of the jugs. That tells me it is time for bore-oversize piston and rings. Reusing used pistons are a waste of time and good money in my book. I've had motors show up at my place with low power and high oil usage because they thought they would save a few dollars by reusing old pistons or using a die grinder trick.

The majority of the time you will have taper in the cylinder wall if you measure it like Kohler wants you to measure it. A good motor rebuilder will measure it like Kolher recomends. I use a good motor machine shop to bore, hone and remove ridge at the top of the cylinder. They have the correct equipment and experence to do the job the right way.

Yes the way I do it cost more money in the beginning. My way will make more power and last longer.