Update on the 123: Still no progress!
 

Well, I have worked a lil more on the cub daily and she just won't go. I am pretty sure that it's a carb issue and electrical because when I put gas in the carb she wont fire but will puff out white smoke. I am completely stumped if that's not it. :bash2:

Hey cubby! I read thru your other post on your issues. Have you checked that float yet?? If you have fuel freely flowing thru the carb (as you stated in your other post) there is a problem in your carb. (float, stuck needle valve?) Also, your last post in your original thread says that it sounds like the engine is running while your turning it over, but won't continue when you let off the key. That could be a timing issue or a stuck valve issue?

Check out that carb & float! Check your compression (borrow if you don't have one). I'm a bit analytical and will sometimes bury myself in the details, you know, miss the forest because of the trees! I was having trouble getting my Chevelle tuned and a buddy told me, "It's only a gasoline engine. You have fuel delivery, spark, and timing. What's so hard?"

Good luck and give us some details on what you've been doing.

White smoke is good... It means that you're on the right track.

If it were mine I would take the high speed needle out of the carb, make sure the holes in it and the passage through the middle of it are clear, then put it back in.

If your plug is getting wet you're getting too much gas, so just to make it run, try turning the needle "in".

From what you say, If you're getting fire to the plug, I'm really thinking that you're a little out of time.

98% of all carburetor problems are electrical.

Sam, I couldn't agree more.

If it won't even fire when you squirt gas into the carb, it's not a carb problem. The tractor should catch and run for half a second and then die if you squirt gas in the carb. It sounds like you either have crappy spark, low compression, or the timing's way off. It doesn't take too much of a timing variation to make these things difficult to start.

Ok,I willtry timing it. Whe you say timing do you mean timing the points? I'm still learning these "phrases" LOL. I can be a lil slow. ;)

Yes. Open up your service manual and start reading...

Use a timing light to set your points, just like on an automobile.

You're gonna love this one: (Sorry, I'm trying to see if I know how to post in this forum). What's the chance that the wire from the coil to the points is grounding out? There's so many variables that we have to go back to K.I.S.S. (and I hate to do that on my first post).
Maybe my first post here IS a good place to go. :American Flag 1:
I think that went quite well, thank you.

I had the same problem with my 123 this past summer. My quick fix was just buying a new coil and installing.....It fired right up and I rejoiced!! Good Luck!!!

Cub Cadet 123

BUY AMERICAN.....LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO HAVE REGRETS!!!:American Flag 1:

Aroostook,

LOL, I hate to agree with you onyour first post...

I do agree though, These old IH Cub Cadets ARE pretty simple (for the most part). All they need is fuel, air and fire, and if everything happens at the right time the engine will run.

To me, white smoke is a sign that there IS INDEED fire (and fuel) in the hole. After that it is a matter of; is it enough fire, at the right time and/or too much/not enough fuel and air.

And yes! It could very well be an electrical problem.

Ok, I will try it out this week. Time is so hard to find lol. I'm hoping it's only the points. I've already dissasembled alot of the engine and reassembled it.

Hmmm. Now that I think of it my Starter/Generator is also having issues turning it over at times. It keeps coming loose or something cuz the belt just slips and the starter spins out. I'm stumped.

take the spark plug out, connect it to the wire, alow the plug and wire to lay on the clutch shield, or some where low. crank the motor, you should EAZILY see good spark comming from the plug. if your not getting spark at this point, you found the problem, it could be a bad plug too, with all that gas soaking it. i'd be willing to bet that you were turning the screws around on the carb and now they are all out of wack. if you dont have the high speed mixture screw and the idle mixture screw set properly [air/fuel mixture] you will never get cubby going! i'am thinking, how you got white smoke with no spark. i dont have a carb. adjustment for your cub. clean and inspect those points, look for any build up or pitting-note where the build up is at-on the moveable or on the stationary contact. spark plug gap=.035" and point gap=.020" . hope this helps.

Hmmmm, I didn't play with the screws, but my "bud" screwed around with the idle mixture screw over summer. And that could be the problem right there. If thats what it is then I'm gonna give my "bud" hell and having my cubby run will make my whole week alot better. Thanks for the info Johncub. Thanks everyone for their posts.

Is this normal: Every five sparks (while looking at the points) there is a blank, and then five more sparks and then a blank. And now there's no smoke at all. Yes there's gas. This Cubby is such a pain LOL.

5 sparks and a blank...hmmm. You've come across the bestest reason going to have 2 or more Cubs. Parts switching. The good news is, you have spark at the points. Now, pull the plug, ground it and crank her over. Same spark? Good spark? Even new plugs can be bad, right out of the box. Plug wet? Plug dry? Followed all the preceeding carb suggestions? Both needle valves backed out 1 1/2 turns (for starters)?
Have you got a spare coil and condensor? That 5 sparks and a blank is strange, but I don't think it would keep her from starting - and then running rough. Also, without digging out the Book, I think they fire every other revolution. Please say you have a manual!
Isn't there a tractor show in Eliot each year? (I'm trying quick reply, watch me screw it up)!

The plug seems fine. After charging up the battery it's sending out a blue spark now. I will try the carb work. Me and my bud worked on his simplicitys yesterday and we tuned the carb as it turned over and the tractor started. Would this work on the cub? And unfortunately I don't have a manual. The guy I bought it from (one of the head members of the tractor show) didn't have it. And yes there is a show in Eliot in June. This year is June 23-25. You should come down and check out my cub that's being a big baby right now LOL. She will be at the show. But yah, I will try both the needle valves. I'm really thinking it's the carb. How should the idle screw be set? At how many turns anyways? thanks Aroostook. Good job on OCC so far hah. Thanks for the help.

Carter Carb Needle Valves
 

Try turning both screws all the way in - not tight, just a little less than snug, then turning them each out 1 1/2 turn. While you're right there, wiggle the throttle shaft - that which the throttle linkage attaches to - runs vertically through the carb. If it feels sloppy side to side you're sucking extra air, there. Whole new subject, I know.
The fresh charged battery makes a big difference, doesn't it?!!!
I'm going to Buxton this weekend to pick up a 1811w/450 snowblower. 6 hours, one way, or I'd look you up! Getting an engine going over the internet is like trying to tell someone how to whistle by mail! Frank :American Flag 1:

High speed screw 2 turns from closed.

Idle screw 1 1/4 turns from closed.

Screw them in until they JUST bottom out, DO NOT FORCE THEM!

Go to the Technical Library - Tractors, and get the manuals you need.

LOL that makes total sense. And I will try out the carb. Thanks Frank :)

The factory settings in the manual are a bit lean in my opinion. Most engines seem to like 2 1/4 turns on the main, and 1 1/2 to as much as 1 3/4 on the idle.

If you have spark and the engine is getting gas, you have either a compression or timing problem; I'm leaning toward the latter. It's very easy to check with an ohmmeter or timing light.

I'm hoping it's just the carb. I bough a new head gasket for her and the head shouldn't be cracked. The points see timed so I will try the carb and go from there. Thanks guys for the specs.:bigthink:

Cubby123-

Have you ever soaked that carb? From what I've read it might be a good idea. Be sure to clean and blow out all of the little ports with good pressure. Do this with both needles out. If the throttle shaft is worn it would still start but be hard to tune. Be sure the float is good too. Also check the little holes in the high speed needle. I'm convinced that so much as a knat hair can make these carbs act up.

It's a process of elimination. I would also either adjust the s/g belt up or just replace it with new. Set your points at .20 (this should get you started), make sure the coil wire is good, and check grounds starting with the battery. Make sure the points to coil wire is good and not cracked as well.

I'd start out with the settings Matt suggested and remember to do your final adjustments after a warm up.

That's my story and I'm stickn' to it....Wayne

hope you get it running! i would coinsider all the ways it could get it's self out of timing.compression,spark,gas but still no start.my friend's 102-every other year the condencer needs replaced or it wont run. these folks know way more than i, so if something comes up with mine, i'll have a heads up. correct me if i'am wrong.....if the piston is all the way up, should you then set the point gap?[.020]

.020 gap will get you close to the correct timing but probably not perfect. There are a lot of variables that change over time that can and will change the gap for it to be perfectly timed. The only way to time one perfectly is with either a timing light or a ohm meter. On the flywheel there are 2 marks. A "S" and a "T". For it to be properly timed, the points need to open at the "S" mark. You can use a timing light to make sure you have spark at the "S" mark or you can use a ohm meter to determine when the points open and then you set them to open at the "S" mark. I will assure you that after you set the points properly, the gap probably won't be at .020.

AJ

Just remember this: "If it's not starting, then it's the ignition"!!!

A small engine, with a carb that is missing the adjusting screws, and leaking, will start, with a shot of ether.....it just won't run. A small engine with a carb that needs rebuilding, or is way out of adjustment, will start with a shot of ether...it just won't run well......If the ignition system is working correctly.

Learn it, live by it.

Small engines are relatively simple.
If your thumb feel a "pop" when on the spk plug hole, then it's got compression.

Next thing needed to start it is a good spark at the right time.

Then technically, while cranking it over....even with no carburater.....if you squirt alittle ether in the port.....It will start!

Don't be so concerned about the carb. Get it running first.....then go to the carb.

Eastonct124 is correct!
I taught small engines to 4H kids for a few years, and I always taught them that.
One of my favorite questions to them was:
Will a engine run without a carburetor?
No was always their answer!!!
Wrong answer I would say,-- then I would proceed to remove a carb from a engine that ran previously, and set the carb on the bench.
then I dribbled a little fuel in the intake hole and cranked it over and it always ran.
Sure, you couldn't control the rpm's or mixture, but the fact remained, it will run as long as you dribble gas into the intake port.
And with just a little practice with your thumb on a fuel line you can get it to run quite smoothly.
But the important point is ignition @ the correct time, with sufficient compression and it will run.

Thanks AJ for the Excellent information about setting the points with an Ohmmeter! That will make it so easy to do on a bench. I'd always wondered how good my luck would be with a timing light, and how I was going to see both sides of the engine at the same time. With my Fluke DMM in Beep Mode, it won't have to be a two person job. My wife will probably like that as well, since she would be the one adjusting the points while I held the timing light (not likely).

I recently got a set of points from a not so respectable vendor and they were way off. Is it likely these were Chevy points? I didn't get a new bracket, and the new pin was the same length as the old one. It was like I couldn't adjust them far enough to even get closed when they should be. :angry:

Cubby123, hang in there. My guess is it's your ignition as well if you have compression at all. If you get it to fire at the right time, it should go. But I've chased my tail many hours on stuff myself... Good Luck!

I spent 2 hours out in the brutal cold last night woorking on her. I adjusted the carb and then found out the gas tank is now dripping out gas all over the coil. Will this effect it? (I'm sure it will)

Open the valve ALL the way, or try tightning up the packing nut around the valve stem.

Running, yet? :American Flag 1:

Not running yet, huh? Does the 125 run? I know a place you can dump the 123, now that you have the "upgrade" 125. :biggrin2.gif:
I'll bet that if you get some time to re-read, maybe even print, the posts made in this thread that you can get 123 running. It's not rocket science, by a long shot. If the southwestern part of the State didn't have more snow than we do I'd suggest you throw 123 and a snowmobile on a trailer, get your butt up here, go sledding while I "play"with getting 123 running!
The Tractor Show in Eliot in July seems like a l-o-n-g ways away, but we're going to set our clocks ahead a week from Sunday. I think they just do that to give us up here something to look forward to! :American Flag 1:

Yah, the road to the tractor show is always a long one lol. I will have to hook up an extension cord in my house and hook a battery charger on that so i can charge her battery up. Maine doesnot want me to work on my cub. I have no power in the workshop cuz it has it's own line than the house. So i have no electricity. I havn't gotten that 125 yet but the guy is holding it for me. I will have it by the show though. I think I might be getting cubby going soon. I gotta feeling ;)

UPDATE: Going to hone and put in new rings on the old engine and do the same for the new 10 hp that smokes. If anyone is looking for a 10 hp email me.

Dude, you've got an ignition problem.
Take the carb off.....have someone crank it over, and give it a light squirt of ether, direct in to the intake port.
If you're ignition is working at all, it'll fire.
Try yanking the motor, and bolting it down to a bench with lagbolts, through a 2x4 on each side to give the oil pan room.
That way, you can check everything much easier.
Just use jumper cables to a battery.

Well I took the engine apart again after i replaced the rod I never got it honed or got new rings so I am going to get it honed for free from a guy I know I just gotta buy new rings and also I gotta buy new gaskets for all around. After I put it back together I will set it up on the bench and try it out :beerchug:

Also I found out the relief valve is rusted shut so there's another thing I gotta do but she should be ready to plow snow by winter.