Get the water out of your axle tubes
 

Thought you guys would like to see how much water condenses in the axle tube housings over the years. Anytime you are replacing the axle seals I highly recommend using a suction tool to get this crap out. The way the rearend is designed there is no way for this stuff to drain when you change the oil. This is the reason anytime I have one apart that I drill return holes in the case at the bottom. If you let enough water buildup it can freeze and crack the housings. Pics are of the water I sucked out of my 1572, the suction tool I use and a case that I drilled (see red arrows).

I must need a new monitor, no red arrows!! :bigthink:

Can my monitor show all the other colors, except red?

:biggrin2:


EDIT: OH, those TINY red arrows!!

:bigeyes:

:bash2:

Cad

You are such a piece of work LMAO :biggrin2:

That's a surprising amount of water. I would think it would have to be exposed to a lot of water to get that much past the seals. You said the PO owned a marina, maybe he was backing down the ramp and into the water to pull boats.

I do like the suction tool idea. :biggrin2: I use the same one to change the hydro fluid in my motorcycle clutch and brakes.

Not the first one I've seen with this much water. Figure it's 26 years old and the condensation just sits year after year and builds up. Like I said I have seen cases cracked from freezing. I bought the tool to bleed brakes on my race car 15 years ago now I use it for my Cub's.

I had a 404 IH that would accumulate more than that much condensation each year setting in a shed roof with no sides.

It is amazing how much moisture is in the air in Virginia, and the temp shift from day to night will suck that moist air into the tractor.

Night after night, after night, after night,,,,,,,,,,,,:bash2:

The shed sides are up, NOW!! :biggrin2:

Good tip Sam:beerchug:
My 100 was the same, would have never knew it unless I was changing axle tube gaskets.
My monitor is good, but my eyes are bad, don't see any arrows. But I take your word for it that they are there.

See, it ain't just me!! :bigeyes:

:biggrin2:

OK I put bigger arrows in the pic.

What would you do all day without OCC visitors like me!! :bigthink:

:biggrin2:

Oh, yea, thanks for the bigger arrows!! :Bowdown2:

Your one of the easy ones to deal with :biggrin2:

Gotta go now and play with the 2284, grass needs killing. :beerchug:

Can't see the holes too well the arrows are in the way:biggrin2:

You and Cad, keep it up and I will be forced to use my secret powers LMAO :biggrin2:

This is a great write-up. I am wondering how far torn down does the rear end need to be in order to drill through and not hit something? If the tubes are off and the rear end cover is off is that enough? Also what is the trick to not getting metal shavings all in the case? Grease on the drill bit and go slow? Then magnet, then spray everything with brake clean? Lastly what size hole did you drill?

If you have the tubes off your good, 3/8" bit. I just stuff a shop towel inside to catch the chips as long as your doing an aluminum case. A little brake clean after and you should be good.

Arrows? What arrows??
Not only didn't see any arrows, I didn't see the Indians !!:biggrin2:

Perfect thanks!

I'm assuming this applies to all rear ends not just aluminum ones?

Yes. :beerchug:

For me personally, those arrows are the exact optimum size. Not too big. Not too small. The precise perfect size

:biggrin2:

I always wondered about the axle tubes being filled with hy guard on my 806.
I believe they hold maybe 4-5 gal each.
I'm thinking IH did that to keep oil to the outer outer axle bearings in the event the main housing reservoir went low.
I didn't drill the drain back holes in it or my cub cadet axle housing for that reason.
Just a thought as to possibly why the engineers chose to keep the housings full.

They fill the tubes through the carrier bearings but when you drain the trans it will only drain to the level of the bearing so it traps about 2 qts. I have actually seen a couple that had enough water in them that they froze and cracked the axel tubes. You have 2 ways to get the water out. If the rear is still in the tractor and you only need to stick a set of axel seals in it then just grab a suction gun and suck the crud out through the axle tube when you pull the axles for a seal replacement, but if you have the whole rear out with the axle tubes off it's only a few minute job to drill the holes through the tranny case to allow everything to drain when you do an oil change.

yes I know, thank you!!.
I decided to stay with the engineers idea.
Prolly not a problem on the little cubs drilling holes but thinking about 100 Hp pulling on the outer bearings in the axles with the opposite furrow wheel elevated when pulling a 5 bottom plow makes me want to have lube retained in there if possible.
there are housing drain plugs on my 806 so the lube can be drained along with condensation build up.
All my old horses get condensation drained every spring. and it it not unheard of, to drain over a quart of it out.
It is the nature of large castings to sweat inside on a warm moist day, after a cold night.
I have experenced a frozen gear case more than once on tractors that are not drained yearly.
Don't know about the newer ones built in the last 50 years though.

To drill or not to drill that is the question. We recently had the rear out of our 2072 and when we removed the axle tubes most of what came out was water. We drilled the holes and cleaned everything and reinstalled everything. Without the holes that water was trapped in the axle tubes with the probability of it freezing in the winter causing the tubes to crack. As to the possibility of a tube running dry, that will not happen as long as the fluid level in the tranny is kept at the full level. When the level is full it is well above the axle tubes and you would have to nearly lay it on its side to drain out an axle tube and run it that way to ruin a bearing. Since water is heavier than the oil rather than collecting in the axle tubes it would drain through the holes into the tranny. Periodic draining and changing the filter will take care of any water in the tranny.

Sam, do you have any measurements spec'd up that would allow the spot to drill the drain holes from inside the diff case and not require removing the rear end or removing the axle tubes? I have a right angle drill that should fit, plus, since there should be oil on the axle tube side, the flow of oil back into the center diff case once the holes are drilled should carry any chips back into the case from the axle tubes. Thoughts?

So here comes the noob question. Can we just drill a hole in the axle casing so that the water can always flow out? I'm expecting that this will not work or you would be doing it and would like to learn why please :)

There needs to be clean fluid in the tubes.

If you drill a hole in the axle casting itself your going to loose the lube oil as well (level is at approx height of diff carrier bearings).

Understood. I've never taken this part of the tractor apart. Thank you :biggrin2:

The outer axle bearing in an 806 axle is greased. No oil goes to it.

The only reason I can think of is like you said later during plowing, or uneven terrain it keeps oil in there. But it's not for the outer bearing. Not on that series. I was thinking on the 66 series, they added holes in the housing. Can't remember, and I'm not where I can look.

Frank

You need to pull the axle tubes. One of the holes is behind the ring gear. Arrows point to the drains. The cross section shows the level that is retained in the axle tubes as they are built. If you drill the drain holes in the case it allows the oil and water to drain back into the center housing so when you drain the oil out of the rear end everything comes out. From my experience the tubes hold about a quart in each tube on the aluminum rears. Problem is that you need to remove the axle tubes to be able to drill the center case. If you wish to just get as much out of the tubes as possible you can remove the axles and use suction gun. You would put a suction hose in through the out bearing and try to get it to the bottom of the axle tube then suck as much of the crud out as you can get. Hope this answers your questions. :beerchug:

This helped a lot Sam, thank you. I do have a follow up question. After doing this, do you add more then the standard amount of oil into the tubes since some will leak into the case? I'm guessing the lube from both tubes will find their level and stop leaking so maybe a little extra will cover the leak from each side? Good stuff and very helpful!!

When you refill it will require approximately 2 more qts. to bring the oil up to the fill level on the dip stick. The tubes will fill through the bearings. The 2182 took 2 gals to refill.

The first pic is what came out of the tubes on a 1572 that I used a suction gun on, the second is what came out of the tubes on the 2182 I'm working on at the moment. Sorry I don't have pics of the crud that was inside the tubes that had to be cleaned out with a scraper.

Now with all this said let me add that I would not pull a rear that was not in need of a total reseal or a rebuild just to drill 2 holes. I'd pop the axles out and use a suction gun.
This is what I use for a suction tool.
http://www.handsontools.com/Mityvac-...-_p_57742.html

This water problem must be a only for the aluminum rears,the cast ones I have taken apart,about 20,none had water,just crud.

My 71 had some water and crud in it but not as bad as the Aluminum rears.

Sam, is that 4 holes you have drilled on each side?

Frank

On some you only need to drill one hole on each side and some you need to drill two. First pic is the case that needs 2 holes the other is the case that only needs 1. No idea why Cub had a couple different case styles. :bigthink:
First pic is with the case sitting on end, the holes are at the bottom.

Just want to note, that doing this doesn't actually make it take more oil. The first time the cases were filled, the oil ran through the bearing into the axles. Then, because of there being no drain holes, you couldn't drain it out. The manual states that it takes about 14Pts to fill the unit. That is because they knew the oil couldn't come out of the axle. Oil level and quantity is the same, you just get more out, and subsequently takes more to fill.

Same thing when you rebuild a motor or an automatic trans. When the block or the trans is completely drained, it takes way more to fill. On a motor it's not uncommon to have to put 6 or even 7qts of oil in a new engine that normally takes 5. On a trans, same thing.