do not know what the problem is?
 

hello, everyone.

ok, you have to read slowly because you can get lost quick.

i was using the 109 (with a 12hp conversion) to snow plow. i went to turn it off and it would not turn off. i turned the key off and the S/G just turn really slowly and would not stop. i turned the key back on and the tractor started up immedietly. i reved it up about half throttle and turned the key off and the tractor shut off.
the S/G actually seemed a little weak when trying to start the tractor. it almost seemed like the belt was too tight for the S/G to turn over. (but it wasn't).
went to go plow the next day. tractor started up and plowed awsome. went to turn it off and same thing. would not turn off. i tried pulling the plug wire and the S/G just kept turning. put plug wire back on and fired rite up. i had to disconect the battery.
i tried to reconnect the battery and when i tried to put on the possitive cable it sparked like i was welding.i disconnected the wires form the S/G and tried putting the wires back on the battery. no sparks but the voltage regulator would click everytime i tried to connect the pos. wire.

i took out the ignition switch and put it on my 108. it started right up and turned off no problem. i took the S/G off the 109 and tried it on the 108. no sparks when hooking up the battery. tried to start it and nothing. no spark. i put back on the 108 S/G and no start or spark. (think my coil went bad? coinsidence?)

put back on the 109 S/G (the one with the problem of not shutting off). tried to hook it up and sparks. i took off the voltage regulator from the 108. hooked up the wires and sparks. disconnected the S/G wires and hooked up the battery. no sparks but clicked just like the original one did.

i am going to try and put on the 108 S/G and see what happens. hopefully it will work and then i can put the 109 coil on the 108 and see if i get spark with that one.

what is going on?

thanks.

"i took out the ignition switch and put it on my 108. it started right up and turned off no problem. i took the S/G off the 109 and tried it on the 108. no sparks when hooking up the battery. tried to start it and nothing. no spark. i put back on the 108 S/G and no start or spark. (think my coil went bad? coinsidence?)"

Did the S/G turn the motor over? Or did it just have no spark? If it turns over with no spark then it could be the coil. Tell me how many terminals your Voltage Regulator has. Sometimes it will have an "L" terminal (which stands for Load). Often people use this terminal for lights, but it will work for the hot wire for your coil. It is off when the switch is off.

yes, the S/G turned the motor over no problem. the V/R i have is a three spade with a ground on the side. the spades say BAT., GEN., F

mike

Many VRegs do not have a ground spade. Be sure that the 4th lug is indeed a ground terminal.
I smoked a wire once, thinking the 4th terminal was a ground.

Sounds like your v/r cutout relay is at fault.Remove the + battery term.then take the cover of the v/r and check the contacts.

how could the v/r relay be at fault. i just started the other tractor and it started right up and turned off. (confused)

can i have a short somewhere?

other terminal says GRD

"i took out the ignition switch and put it on my 108. it started right up and turned off no problem. i took the S/G off the 109 and tried it on the 108. no sparks when hooking up the battery. tried to start it and nothing. no spark. i put back on the 108 S/G and no start or spark. (think my coil went bad? coinsidence?)"

So the S/G from the 109 didn't work on the 108? Did it turn the 108 over, but no spark?

Looks like it is time to get out the ohm meter and check your wiring for shorts.

Sounds like a starter relay stuck shut? There's a starter relay under the dash. I think it's called a magnetic switch in the parts diagrams. If it has welded itself shut, it will try to drive the starter regardless of the switch position.

Your ignition switch energizes the coil in the starter relay which pulls the contactor together, sending juice to the starter. Has nothing to do with the V/R, the starter/generator or the ignition switch. To check this, check for continuity across the relay (between two big terminals) with no power applied to the small terminals. If there is continuity, that's the problem, If it's open (infinite resistance) then check it again with 12v applied to the small terminals. It should close and show continuity (no resistance/zero ohms).

yes, the s/g from the 109 turned the 108 over no problem, but no spark

Sawdustdad .If you remove your vr cover and push the contacts together on the post with the large windings it will turn over with the key off.
If they are fused together the same thing happens. It may need a quick filing to clean it up.

"Sounds like a starter relay stuck shut? There's a starter relay under the dash. I think it's called a magnetic switch in the parts diagrams. If it has welded itself shut, it will try to drive the starter regardless of the switch position. "


why is the pos. cable sparking really bad? (with smoke)

You have a short somewhere. Make sure you disconnect the battery cable before things get out of hand, then take a look with a VOM meter.

Read the thread "sudden meltdown." It may give you some insight.

what causes the contacts to fuse together. (sounds like something is not working properly?)

Usually dirty contacts causing too much resistance, and therefore too much heat buildup. Or too much current passing through the contacts (possibly due to a short).

started to read "sudden meltdown". looks like i am going to do some testing.
let you guys know what i find out tommorow night.

thanks.

this just happened out of no where, too.

Darkminion says the V/R also has contacts that energize the starter--I didn't realize the V/R was part of the ignition circuit, but I'm no expert. I still think, based on the things you did, it's not the V/R. Check the starter relay.

Relays fail for a variety of reasons, corrosion, fatigue, shorts.

oh, last question for tonight.

i put in a working v/r from the 108. it also clicks just like the 109 one. if putting in a known working v/r that now clicks, does that most likely say there is a short somewhere? or possibly the starter selenoid. (like said before)

but, why would the v/r click and not the starter relay click instead?

The click says that the VR is pulling in due to some reason. When you put the clicking VR on the "good" tractor does it work OK?

yes, the v/r on the good tractor worked. i put it on the bad tractor, hooked up the s/g wires, and tried to hook up the battery and sparks flew. i hope i did not mess up the known good v/r. i will put the good v/r back on the good tractor tommorow and see if it does not click.

could a messed up started relay not let the tractor shut off?

108
 

Hello, you have to watch that A terminal on the s/g. If that bottom nut has come loose and the whole post has turned when you are connecting wires it can short out inside. BTDT Mike

Could be because the starter relay is already "clicked" (contacts stuck together.) Tap it with something to see if you can jar the contacts apart. Or, disconnect it and do the continuity test.

put the good v/r back on the good tractor and no clicking. i changed over the starter relay from good tractor to bad tractor. hooked up the 109 v/r and no clicking. hooked up the s/g and no sparks. tractor started right up and shut right off. plowed for a while turning tractor on and off and it worked perfect.
it was the starter relay.
thanks too everyone that helped.

my 108 now needs a starter relay. can i use and automotive one. the one from a 78 f 150, 70 mustang looks like they will work? will it? these relays were used through the late 80's i think
miike

I have used automotive style relays in mowers in the past and have had no problems