Oil question for kohlers
 

I read in the manual that only straight 30w oil is recommended for my K-341, at temperatures above freezing. Problem is that my automotive stores only sell the cheap store brand stuff in 30W. Everything else is 5w or 10w-something or other. FAQ on another site indicates that 10w-40 will increase the crud in the head and on the valves, as the lighter weights burn out of the oil. I am reading into this that the K-341 tolerances aren't tight enough to need the lighter weight oils and that the straight 30w will lubricate effectively without leaking into the cylinder and burning out.

I would really like to use a synthetic, because they are slipperier and make engine parts last longer, but I can't find straight 30W Mobil 1. I have been running 10W-40 and 20W-50 synthetic in my mowers for years with no adverse affects.

So, the question is this: What do you guys use for engine oil in the old K engines?

I use 30wt. Castrol.

I use 30wt. Valvoline, in my K-241.

HD40 W Pennzoil. And I'm gonna try it this winter also. My engines are not as tight as a new or rebuilt one or I would run the 30W.

30 wt Valvoline from Wal-Mart. Cheaper than auto parts stores.

I don't change to a different viscosity oil for winter either. Just start em and let em warm up a little before putting them to work.

Try looking for rotella t 30 weight at a farm store, that is where I get mine. I had to switch to 5-40 rotella for anything below freezing or it wont turn over fast enough to start. My engine was just rebuilt so the tolerances are on the tight side.

After I bought my 104, I changed the oil and put in Rotella 30 wt, well see how it does this winter for plowing snow, I use Rotella 5w40 Syn in my diesel car and always keep it on hand, so if it is hard to start, will be a quick oil change. The garage where I keep the 104 is typically about 20 degrees above the outside temp.

I follow the chart and use Penzoil SAE 30WT for 32° & above. Can be had at several auto parts stores as well as Wally World.

I use Kohler 30wt oil. Sometimes I use the TSC brand 30wt for small engines. In the winter I still use 30wt since I keep them indoors and it always lingers above and below 32 degrees where i live

Shaeffer's 30W above 32 degrees, and 10W30 below. The diesel and 782 have Shell Rotella 15W40 in them, year round.

I had forgotten Walmart carries oil. I'll see if I can't find some good ol' straight 30 Pennzoil there.

Thanks guys.

I run 10w-30 synthetic in them......stopped the '62 from smoking entirely. Seems to run quieter and run smoother. I've heard great things about Rotella, though I've never tried it yet.

Cub Cadet 123

i run amsoil in every motor i own because my dad is a dealer and it makes a big difference for everything. it made my 129 stop smoking completley.

Just a note on the use of Rotella...Rotella, primarily intended for truck/diesel use, still has all the ingredients that the OEM oil had. All other brands are primarily intended for auto use and the EPA requires that they be be purged of certain elements causing "politically correct" so-called air pollution. They can't take anything out of the diesel oils or every 18-wheeler in the country would blow their engines. Rotella ( Delo if you can find it or any oil intended and labeled for diesel use) comes closer to original oil specifications than the current "automotive" oils. Though not as critical to small engine use as it is to a Duramax or IH Power Stroke, Rotella would be the better choice for these old Kohler, B&S, or Tecumseh engines found in our Cadets & Cub Cadets, which do not use roller bearings on the valve lifters.

Myron B
CCSupplyRoom

Good info.

Shell Rotella HD 30 for me too.

(I run Rotella 15W-30 in my older car.)

Arnold Palmer "uses Pennziol in all his tractors" and that's good enough for me.:biggrin2.gif:

RP,
Now that's funny right thar!

I heard if you wanted to stop a small engine from smoking was to pour synthetic in there. Okay, so it doesn't stop from burning the oil, you just can't see the synthetic smoke when it burns. Best way to hide a smoking engine you're trying to sell. Now, depending on the engine it may actually help the oil comsumption. YMMV

Ya know... I seem to recall that beautiful Farmall in the commercial had a radiator. :bigthink: Maybe I should switch to OEM Kohler low ash.

Hmmm. Invisible synthetic smoke. There must be some way I can market that. People will pay $10 per gallon for plain ol' water, as long as it's in a little bottle. Why wouldn't they buy that?:bigthink:

You know, Myron, I have to wonder about your comment about the stuff removed from the auto oils. It wasn't too long ago that 100K miles on a car was a LOT of miles. You could hardly even give away a car with more than 100K on it. I recently bought a Toyota pickup with 120K miles. It now has nearly 140K miles and runs like new. My Dad had a Ford Ranger 4wd that went for upwards of 350K miles before my nephew wrecked it. I have actually participated in tests comparing the modern synthetic oils to the old-school standard oils and have seen the difference in the...wait, there's a word for it...slickeriness...no, that's not it...slip...nope...ahh! Anyway, the modern synthetic oils are definitely more resistant to damage and breaking down from heat and friction and they are slipperier than regular oils. With the longevity even our American-made cars are getting nowadays, I find it hard to believe modern oils are not improved over what they used to be, regardless of what has been removed by the EPA. :}

Thenrie...Well, it's a free country to believe as one pleases. But, you have to look at the whole picture...not just the oils...you also have to look at the technology level of the equipment being used. The Kohlers in our Cub Cadets are technologically similar to those engines that only went 100K or less....So an oil like Rotella has all the new refining improvements and additives while not removing the ingredients compatable with the older technology. Cam wear is the largest issue here and those older engines do NOT have roller cams while all the newer ones you cited do. While it certainly is not as critical in the small engines as it is in an automotive engine, the squish wear factor must be considered (critical in a diesel engine)....BTW, weren't those old Arnold Palmer commercials shown back when, waaay before the EPA decided that they know better how to lubricate an engine than the manufacturers and oil companies as I recall...Hmmm

Myron B

BTW, weren't those old Arnold Palmer commercials shown back when, waaay before the EPA decided that they know better how to lubricate an engine than the manufacturers and oil companies as I recall...Hmmm

Could be Myron. It doesn't seem that long ago to me. But that means squat. I quit listening to Uncle Sam long ago. I'm waiting for them to give me a phone number to call when I have to go, and then again when to flush.

I get the Shell Rotella HDEO at Advanced Auto, they ran a sale a couple weeks ago $9.99 for the 1 gallon jug ( I think it's a gallon, it's the big jug anyway) I think Shell Rotella, or Dello is two of the better oils made, but that's just my opinion. Pennzoil, Castrol, any name brand 30 wt is an outstanding oil, and when it comes down to it, the store brand 30 wt oils far out perform the old oils when these engines came out.

One thing I would like to point out, if I remember correctly Kohler recommends to run a non detergent oil, now that puts things in a different perspective when choosing an oil, to my knowledge there are no choices on any quality name brand/ proven track record oils off the shelf. The other option in this case would be to choose a ISO hydraulic oil, which are also outstanding oils, you can pick these up at local farm store like Tractor Supply.

One more thing on the oils, I think it's ZDDP that is the issue with flat tappet, it's really a non issue on original Kohlers because of the low compression, and valve springs. It comes into play more on high performance engines with aggressive cams, high tension valve springs, etc. We need a retrofit for roller rockers on our Kohlers !! :biggrin2.gif:

I still like the Dello, and Rotella oils for air cooled engines, they are hard on off the shelf passenger car oils of today, but mind you these oils of today have add packs that are made for cars today. My Honda Accord has a 7500 mile oil change interval (that's factory), I run a synthetic out between 12,000-15,000 miles, however I put a lot of miles on as my work is a ways from the house, so for my a synthetic with extended drain intervals is a big savings in money, and time. A synthetic straight 30 weight oil would be nice, it does not take much to fill the Kohler crank case, and twice a year oil change would not be expensive at all. I have read a research article on today's synthetics, and when compared to HDEO (Heavy Duty Engine Oil) they fall short, the HDEO puts pretty much every other oil, even exotic oils to shame, however those exotic oils are marketed for a niche group, like those for racing to hold up to extreme heat, etc etc.

A great site to research oil is http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

Clint: I have several Kohler manuals, books & pamphlets, none of which call for non-detergent oil for operatingl use to my knowledge..

The 6 June 1978 Kohler Universal Service Engines & Short Block manual calls for 30 wt oils ( above 32*) with API service SC, CC, SD, or SE which are detergent type oils. Kohler does say that their short blocks (only) be given a 5-hour run in with 30 wt non-detergent oil, drain it, and replace with a 30 wt detergent oil with one or more of the above classifications for normal operating use. That 5-hour break-in is the only place or time non detergent oil is called for by Kohler to my best knowledge!!

Myron B

Myron

I just typed a long post, now I know where I cited the information from, Brian Miller's "gardentractorpullingtips" he gave information about the use of non detergent motor oils http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/engine.htm#oil

I apologize for posting the misinformation above, and glad you caught it. In either case I think the HDEO 30 wt oils work best in these engines ( and other air cooled engines as well that call for 30 wt oils)

I think all the oils mentioned here are good oil. To me it is more about the maintenance schedule and how you care for your tractor. I had rather have clean oil in any of the brands discussed than to run dirty oil because I'm out of my favorite brand.

semi related, but what is a normal oil consumption.

I have been running straight 30wt this summer and it seams like ever other mow I need to add 1/3 to 1/2 quart of oil. approximant 3.5hrs of running. This to me seams slightly higher then normal. I get some good blue smoke on occasion so I know its burning it not leaking it.

That's pretty excessive to me. You should be able to go 25 hours without adding any more than a quart.

OK, Myron. The issue about the cams and roller rockers makes sense to me. Clint's info about the HD oils makes sense as well. I have never researched the oils myself, except with regard to my pickup. I'm going to be looking for a 30W HDEO Rotella for my Cub and just keep it changed regularly.

Thanks for all the input guys.

Now a followup question:

How often do members change oil in their normal use Cubs? I would imagine pullers change oil more often than a Cub used for farm/garden use.

Kind of depends. For engines with no oil filter, Kohler recommends 25 hour intervals...Mine usually wind up going about 10 to 15 hours. On the Magnum twins, you can theoretically go 50 hours, but after about 30 of mowing the oil usually looks like crap anyway. Now that I've switched to Rotella in the 782, I'll see if that can go the 50 hours. The diesels can supposedly go 100 hours, but once again, the oil looks like crap long before that...I'll let mine go 40-50 hours between changes. Oil is cheaper than an engine rebuild, so I change it fairly frequently.

I've heard the Briggs & Stratton small engine oil is pretty good stuff. Wal-Mart carries it. I haven't tried it though.

Click the pics to go to Briggs site for more information.
http://www.briggsandstratton.com/ima...lEngineOil.jpg 18oz bottlehttp://www.briggsandstratton.com/ima...erOil_48oz.jpg 48oz jug

I use 30W castrol in my CC 100 and 102.
Edward M

This has been a interesting topic so far.

I use straight 30 weight Valvoline dino oil above 32 degrees and 10W30 dino oil below 32 degrees. The oil is a detergent type oil. Anytime I rebuild or install a fresh motor I use Valvoline 30 weight dino oil. The motor is runs 30 to 45 minutes and the oil is dump and fresh oil is added to the motor. I will change oil again when the motor has 5 hours on it.

I will change oil in my Cub every 25 hours.

I have tried synthetic oils in a couple of my autos. All of them start leaking oil around the main seals and valve cover gaskets after 2500 to 3000 miles. Fuel mileage improve less than a half mile per gallion. All my quit leaking oil after I went back to dino oil. Price of the oil was 2 times compaired to dino oil......not worth it in my book. Some claim the motors using synthetic oil start easier in the cold weather......sounds like you have other problems that need fix.

Cars with a bit of mileage that are changed over to synthetic tend to get leaks at the seals. I have read it is because the synthetic oils clean the old gunk from the seals, causing them to leak. Install new seals and the problem goes away for good (newer cars don't normally require a complete engine teardown to replace the main seals). That's why they say you shouldn't mix synthetics with regular oil. I run Mobil 1 10W-40 High Mileage in my Toyota with 140K. No leaks. I don't care about the extra 1/2mpg, but I would like to see 200K miles on the engine. If there is sufficient reduction in friction to make 1/2mpg increase, there is certainly enough friction reduction to add several thousand miles to the bearings, seals, and rings.

This really did turn into a great thread. Maybe some of this stuff should be added to the FAQ section.

My Suburban had less than 45000 miles on it when I tried synthetic oil.
My Impala had less than 25000 miles on it when I tried synthetic oil.
The synthetic oil test last 12000 miles on both.

My 2002 Chevy Blazer has 127500 miles on it.
My 2000 Chevy Impala has 185000 miles on it.
My 1999 Chevy Suburban has 129000 miles on it. The majority of the miles on the Suburban is pulling trailers.
I use Valvoline dino oil in my autos.
I expect to to see 200000 to 250000 miles on all my autos without any oil related problems.

My 1996 Chevy Monte Carlo has 317000 miles on it. The block has never been touch. Head gaskets been change 2 time beacuse of the orange antifreeze. The only oil the Monte Carlo had in it is Valvoline dino oil. It does leak/use less than a quart every 3000 miles.

You read so much "info" about synthetics that it's really hard to grasp what they are marketed for, or even what to expect when using them. Synthetics are for a nitch group in some areas like racing oils for high performance engines with a heavy additive package ( this will relate to the pushrods etc) Also for special oil specs called out by car manufactures (mane with turbo application) or long drain intervals. The main reason I choose a synthetic is for the long drain intervals, as I said I travel many miles back and forth to work. As for the engine lasting longer it may very well, however keep in mind there is probably twice as much, maybe three times as much documentation of obscene mileage using good old dino oil. Oil leaks are one of the common things blamed on synthetics (not picking on you Merk) however modern seals are compatible with off the shelf synthetics, and vice verse they cross over with no problems or should unless using an older engines. If your using a 5-20 chance are your using a synthetic, or semi-synthetic anyway. Oil brands, types, weights, time of year, at what point you choose to do so, and how you pour it in can cause huge uproars, family feuds, and even shock, and awe ( Dessert Storm) so please noone take any of the above to heart I just typed. The information I gave is good information, and was not pointed in any direction, more of a generalization. I will run dino, or synthetic, however when shopping for oil I have had good luck with mail in rebates picking up good name brand synthetic oils for obscene low prices like free only paying taxes on two 2 gall jugs of Pennzoil Platinum, about $15 in Castrol Edge, I have three 5 gallon jugs of Quaker State synthetic left I purchased on closeout at walmart for $8 a jug. I try to be frugal in everything, saving money buy closeout oils can cause you to have a oil reserve all your own, and it crosses over to cub cadets as well LOL

Since we're discussing oil. I'm going to have a dilema this winter. During the winter here it inconsistently goes anywhere from the low 20's to upper 30's even 40's throughout the days. What do you guys recommend for my oil type. 10w30 or 30wt? I'll be using the 782 with blade and I had to use it more than i expected to last year and this year is expected to be more snow. It has the KT17 Series II. Oh, it'll be in the unheated garage.

I recommend you keep using what you are now. And keep your battery and ignition in tip top shape.