|
Original - replaced clutch shaft front bearing
I noticed there was a lot of vibrating in the drive belt so I looked around and saw that the sealed high speed bearing in the front had about a 1/16 gap and lots of up and down movement. Well I found a replacement clutch off ebay, only $10.00 Everything looked good on it, but I just replaced the bearing, left everything else alone.
Since I've replaced the clutch bearing couple of things. At first I had hardly no power (couldn't pull out in 2nd or 3rd on level ground), I had way too much slack in the drive belt from the clutch to the engine. How much should there be? Do you tighten it correctly by moving the clutch support assembly up and down? I think that's part of my other problem. Now it seems like I have no brake (wheels keep trying to turn when I put on the brake), do I have the belt too tight? I'm sure there should probably be a little slack. The clutch rod also made one complete turn when I was pulling the clutch out, is there a good clutch FAQ on adjusting besides the manual? I just don't quite get all those adjustments. These are all pretty new to me. This original is my first and my first learning experience. |
I'm not at all sure what the book says about tightning the belt, I like to leave mine just loose enough that the belt will squeel a little when taking off in third gear.
When you say "No brake"... did you put the old clutch back in or did you put the one from ebay in? When I have no brake on an Original it ALWAYS means that the pressure plates have stuck to the clutch, so I pop them loose by pushing down on the pedal and prying them apart with the tip of a large screwbar (this process sounds WAY worse than it really is). After that it's good until the next time I ride it hard and put it away wet... When you say "The clutch rod also made one complete turn when I was pulling the clutch out" I'm guessing that you mean the adjustment rod, but I really don't see one turn being any real trouble. The questions I have are, can you start it in neutral then put it in gear while it's running? Does the drive shaft stop turning when you step on the pedal? And, are you sure you put it back together the same way it came apart (sorry about the last one but we all do something dumb once in awhile)? I really don't see much trouble there either, you didn't hardly take it apart enough to put anything back together wrong... My best guess is that the pressure plates are stuck to the clutch and need to be pryed loose. Good luck and keep us posted. |
I did put the old clutch back in, I just removed the bearing from the one I got off of ebay. I guess I need to clarify the "no brake" a little more. When I apply the brake hard enough it slows the tractor down, but it will not come to a complete stop, like there is too much force/power to override the brake.
You are right about the adjustment rod, when I was removing the clutch to replace the bearing it turned once, I don't know if that was anything major or not. Yes, I can start in neutral and put it in gear. 1st gear and reverse are smooth, going into 2nd or 3rd from neutral or from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd there is some grinding. I honestly haven't paid attention to see if the shaft stops turning when I press the pedal. I'm assuming since it wants to keep going even with the brake on that it isn't, but you know what you get when you assume. Yes, I did double check about putting it back together, orientation of the bearing, the front bearing retainer is all I had off. On the collar assembly the grease plug is pointing away from the clutch release lever. Is the collar assembly supposed to move back and forth on it's own? Is it possible to have too much grease if it is supposed to move back and forth, or is it supposed to just stay in one position? Thanks for the help. |
Good morning gcbailey!!!! How's it going good buddy!!!
gcbailey, after reading both of your posts, I noticed you never mentioned about installing back on the Bearing Lock Collar after you did the bearing upgrade. Without that Bearing Locking Collar, your tractor will not move. Trust me, the OL' Girl threw the Bearing Locking Collar at work one time and she just came to a complete stop. I could shift threw all the gears without any problems but she wouldn't move. So make sure to check into that. Secondly, as for the Clutch Rod moving a turn. I agree with Yosemite Sam. One turn shouldn't make much of a difference. But go ahead and readjust it any way. Just remember this, the more you screw in the Clutch Rod, the more it will pull the Clutch Pressure Plates away from the Clutch disc when you press on the Clutch/Brake Pedal. And if you screw the Clutch Rod out, it pulls the clutch pressure plates less farther away from the Clutch Disc when you press on the Clutch/Brake Pedal. In result, you'll have some light rubbing going on between the between the Pressure Plates and the Clutch Disc. Possibly making it a little harder to shift gears. Thirdly, the belt should be nice and tight, without any squealing during take off. The only light squealing you should hear is from the Clutch during take off. If your Clutch Belt is squealing during take off, that means it's too loose and you'll have problems if you plan on using this tractor for plowing or hauling. To tighten the belt, find you a long steel rod and place that steel rod on top of the drive shaft preferably some where behind the Collar assembly. And pull up applying down force pressure on the drive shaft until your Clutch Belt is nice and tight and tighten the 3 bolts to the Clutch Assembly Plate. Sometimes it takes two people to do this. Since the 3 bolts that hold the Clutch Assembly Plate start to turn while you're trying tighten the Hex Nuts on them. And last but not least, the Clutch Collar. The position that you stated you clutch collar is in is correct. And it stays there too. It does not rotate in any way. The clutch collar becomes active when you press the Clutch/Brake Pedal. And it's only movement is back and forth. When you apply the Clutch/Brake Pedal, the Collar moves back and releasing the pressure off the Clutch Disc coming from the Pressure Plates. When you let go of the Brake/Clutch pedal, the Collar moves forward bringing the two Pressure Plates together applying pressure back onto the Clutch Disc in result making the tractor move. And don't worry about having too much grease inside the collar. Having more than enough grease inside the Collar is a very good thing. Trust me on that one. Hope this helps in one way or another???? If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask. I'll be more than happy to help you out. Have a great day good buddy!!!! MATT |
Matt - thanks for the reply. I'll have to recheck through all of these. Another question about the collar. I was under the tractor looking (with it off) and I can push/slide the collar back against the clutch release and when I push in on the clutch it moves it forward and it just stays. Does that move back automatically when you have it in gear?
|
OK I've had a chance to play around some. It's hard to do too much on a rainy day in the garage.... Is it possible I have the belt too tight? Here's what's happening... I adjusted the distance between the collar and yoke, and I think it's about .020. I started the tractor up got looking underneath and watched the collar slide back and forth when I applied the brake/clutch. I guess that answered my earlier question. The engine had to be running. So now, I put it in 1st with the engine low throttle. I put on the brake, the left wheel locks tight, but the right just keeps on chugging, slam into neutral real quick so I don't hit my truck. Rinse and repeat... Is it possible when I reconnected the yoke I did something to the brake? Or do I have the belt too tight that the drive shaft is overpowering the brake? I really need my brakes because here in West Virginia there isn't such a thing as flat ground, so brakes come in handy :)
|
gcbailey, are these the two parts that you are asking about??? If so, both of these parts should move back and forth together as you press and depress the Clutch/Brake Pedal, even if the tractor is not on or in gear.
CLUTCH RELEASE COLLAR http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c.../DSCN00101.jpg CLUTCH SHAFT BUSHING http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c.../DSCN00091.jpg |
They move back and foward together when I have the engine turned on and the drive shaft is spinning. If I don't have the tractor engine on they just move back with the pedal once, you have to take your hand and move them back forward. Like a one way street.
|
Oh Crap!
Are you asking about the throw out bearing??? I thought you were talking about the bearing way up on the front end of the shaft. Listen to Matt he just went through throw out bearing problems... As far as the brake thing goes, there is only one brake on an Original it's on the left axle, there is none on the right at all. From what you describe it sounds like the pressure plates are either stuck to the clutch OR your brake is coming on before your clutch is disengaged. Unhook the brake rod and start it up (someplace where you can't crash anything) try driving it with the rod unhooked and see if it starts and stops like it should (DO THIS ON THE FLAT GROUND IN FIRST GEAR SO NO ONE OR NOTHING GETS HURT). If you think it's going to get away from you, don't panic, just reach down and turn the key off. |
|
I'm not very familiar with the original's clutch, but it looks to me like the clutch shaft bushing is binding on the driveshaft.
|
4 Attachment(s)
Here are a few pictures also, don't know if they will help or not. I have to forewarn you all I'm in no way a mechanic. I'm just the IT guy who's always loved this stuff. So bear with me. That's my disclaimer.
|
I watched your video, then went out to watch the travel on one of mine as I pushed the pedal down. The movement of the bearing fork appears to be about the same, yours may be just a little less. Anyway, the difference between yours and mine is that as soon as that fork starts to move (on mine) it starts moving the bearing back, there may be the thickness of a business card of travel in the fork before it moves the bearing, but that is all, and there is NO pushing the collar back and forth with your finger AT ALL.
I don't know what the "fix" is for you, but that bushing should stay inside the collar all the time. It almost looks like the clutch rod is WAY too long, but one turn wouldn't make all that much difference. |
GCBailey, I also watched your YouTube vid. I agree with Yosemite Sam. The Clutch Rod seems to be too long or in other words it needs to be shorten in length by simply screwing it in. I noticed you weren't having to apply a decent amount of pressure to press the Brake/Clutch Pedal with your hand. That automatically tells me that your clutch rod needs to be adjusted. Due to the fact that on my OL' Girl, you need to put a little muscle if you want to press the Clutch/Brake Pedal by hand. And I also noticed one more thing. The Bearing Lock Collar needs to be placed up against the front of the bearing, not away from it. This could also be one of your problems also. But for starters, let start with shortening the Clutch Rod and we'll move on from there. Keep us posted good buddy!!!!
MATT |
I'll take a look at that today. The only pressure that I feel in the pedal is from I guess you call it the return spring connected to the underside of the pedal. My 4 yr old can press on the pedal with his hand as easy as he wants.
When you say the collar lock needs to be toward the front of the bearing, is that toward the engine or toward the transmission? I just got this back in the first of Aug, the guy I got it from had let it sit for 5 years, he was going to restore it, but started a Ford 8N instead. |
OK did some turning and now I'm moving the pressure spring, I think that's it, a little when I press in on the clutch. Before it wasn't moving it any. It appears that I've got some brakes now too. I'm going to play around a little more, but this is progress....
|
Sorry for another post... I got reading in the owner's manual vs. the chasis manual and see there's a difference. The owner's has .020 -.030 distance between the collar and the yoke. The chasis has .005 - .030 distance... Anyways, I think I've made some decent progress, if anyone is interested in checking out a couple of videos I've put up at my youtube www.youtube.com/gcbailey34 the last two shows the adjustment I made on the collar and shortening the clutch rod, the second is me going through the gears and with the brake working.... I can definitely tell a difference in applying hand and foot pressure to the pedal now. I really really appreciate your guys help!!! I've got a bunch of other questions about this thing to make sure I've got it in good everyday shape.
|
Hey gcbailey!!!! How's it going good buddy!!!!
I checked out your vids and you're on a good track. Keep shortening up that Clutch Rod until you no longer here any gear grinding what so ever. Just remember that the Clutch Disc will always continue to turn, but its the Drive Shaft along with the Pressure Plates that have to come to a complete stop before you can change gears. If not, you'll continue to grind gears every time you change gears. What you're aiming for is to get those two pressure plates far away as possible from the Clutch Disc. By the way gcbailey, if your cub as a lot or slight jerking motion during take off. You might want to adjust your brakes. The problem is that your clutch is engaging before the brakes have been let off. So in other words, you have to get the two components to work together in order for the jerking motion to stop during take off. If you have anymore questions, don't hesitate to ask. We're all here to help each other out. Take care good buddy!!!! MATT |
Thanks Matt!!
There is a slight jerking on takeoff if I just let off the brake. If I ease it off there is none. Does that sound about right? On an unrelated item.... The front axle, should their be play back and forth, would this be from worn pivot bolt? Is that something you can just tighten or do I need to find something? |
Hey gcbailey!!! How's it going good buddy!!!!
That sounds just about right on the take off. That means everything is working together. As for the front axle. There shouldn't be any play what so ever on the front axle. Sounds like the Pivot Bolt my be loose or it might just simply be worn out. But if it is loose, just get you two wrenches(I can't remember what size though) and place one on the Hex Bolt and the place the other wrench on the Hex Nut. And tighten it until the front axle no longer moves back and forth. But if it still moves back and forth after you have tighten it, that just means you either have a worn out front axle or a worn out Pivot Bolt. But let's go ahead and tighten up that Pivot Bolt first and then we'll move on from there.Keep us posted. Take care good buddy!!!!:ThumbsUp: MATT |
Well I haven't had a chance to play around for over a week. My wife had our 2nd son last Wednesday :) I got a chance to ride around a little last night and I have some grinding back, not as bad as at first, but still some... What do I need to look at now? I have the clutch rod turned in as much as possible, one more revolution it won't go into the hole.
The bearing collar lock. Which one exactly is that? I'm trying to read through earlier posts and go back and check everything. In 1st and Rev if I push the pedal all the way in, or far enough for the brake latch to catch there is no grinding, but less pressure than that there is some slight. All of the grinding in every gear is only momentary, nothing lasting longer than I'd say 1/2 of a second. But like I said at first, before I've let it set for a week there wasn't any. If you want another video or more pics let me know :) |
Hey gcbailey!!!! How's it going good buddy!!!!
First of all, Congratulations on your second son!!!! VERY COOL!!!!! As for the gear grinding that you still have, I would suggest looking into your Clutch Pulley first. Make sure it's not wobbling around the drive shaft and touching the Pressure Plates, due to a worn out Bronze Bushing that is placed within the center hole of the Clutch Pulley. An easy way to check if the bronze bushing is worn out on the Clutch Pulley, is to simply turn on the tractor with the parking brake on and in Neutral Gear. After that you can either listen for a "rattling sound" coming from the bottom or just simply look under the tractor and watch the Clutch Pulley to see if it's wobbling around the drive shaft. If it's wobbling as it rotates around the drive shaft, that means you have a worn out Bronze Bushing. Which by the way are pretty easy to replace and you can also find the replacement bushings with anyone of our sponsors or you can also go to our Parts Resources section here on the forum. As for how far you're having to press the Brake/Clutch Pedal in order to switch gears. I always press the Brake/Clutch Pedal all the way down on my 61 Cub before I even switch gears just to make sure everything has stopped turning down there. But let's go ahead and check the Clutch Pulley and see what's going there first, then we'll move on from there. Chances are you might not be pressing the Brake/Clutch Pedal far enough down to switch gears properly. By the way gcbailey, you asked about the Bearing Lock Collar. The Bearing Lock Collar is located right at the very front of the drive shaft. And should be placed up against the High Speed Bearing that's being held between the two bearing retainers. The Bearing Lock Collar should have a small Allen Wrench screw flushed inside of it. I've added a break down of the whole Clutch Assembly as a visual. Hope this helps??? If you have anymore questions don't hesitate to ask. Take care good buddy!!!!:ThumbsUp: MATT http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c.../origclch1.jpg |
Thanks Matt!!!! I'll get this checked out today, probably post a video. BTW any luck in getting a new camera/camcorder?
|
By the amount of movement of the collar it looks you may be missing the teaser spring. That being gone would also contribute to the jerking at take off.
|
OK... made another video.
This is with the parking brake on, in neutral... I didn't feel like getting my head ran over this rainy morning. Now I have noticed it's squealing some with the brake on, never noticed that before, let the brake off, no squeal... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baQpt1KAzM0 |
gcbailey,
For me it's really hard to tell, but it looks like your teaser spring is broken and the possable cause of that squeeking. BTW I enjoy your videos. |
Hey gcbailey!!!! How's it going good buddy!!!
I've been watching your vid over and over. And the first thing that caught my eye is that your Drive Shaft never stops turning when the Clutch/Brake Pedal is applied. The Drive Shaft always stops turning when the Clutch/Brake is applied. Obviously, there's something wrong within the Clutch Assembly that is not allowing the Drive Shaft to come to a complete stop when the Clutch/Brake Pedal is applied. I've also noticed that the Clutch Pulley is only moving away from the Front Pressure Plate and still making contact with the Back Pressure Plate. Both Pressure Plates should have no contact what so ever to the Clutch Pulley when the Clutch/Brake Pedal is applied. In result allowing the Drive Shaft to come to a complete stop so you can change gears properly without any gear grinding. As for the "Squealing" noise. What I'm hearing is metal rubbing against metal and possibly doing some serious damage some where within the Clutch Assembly. My only recommendation is to do a complete tear down of the Clutch Assembly and see exactly where the problems are. Trust me, by doing this you'll save yourself a whole lot of time and money by replacing the parts that need to be replaced. Don't worry good buddy, we'll help you get that OL' Girl running again. Just keep the vids and the questions coming, and we'll give you the answers. Keep us posted good buddy!!!! By the way, I'm still working on the digital camera thing.lol MATT |
Thanks guys... so let me start, how do I go about tearing it down? That spring is under a lot of pressure I assume. How can I safely, or at least think it's safe, tear it down? I don't have a press or anything. I do have a bench vise, but I don't know how that will work...
|
The sqealing to me sounds like the thrust brearing inside the collar needs some grease. Teaser spring looks broke so that would explain the jerky take off.
I think Matt is onto something with the pressure plate not being released completely too. Keep us posted. |
I played around some more last night. with the tractor off and brake engaged I can grab hold of the drive shaft and it spins seperate of the clutch pulley. BUT I did have to wiggle the pressure plates apart a little more. Is there a spring or what seperates the plates from the pulley? I could also turn the pulley and the drive shaft would not spin ( I had the plug out too btw) Do I need to WD-40 in between the plates and the pulley? But again, how much of this can I do without having a press to take the clutch apart?
|
gcbailey,
Go to the profile page of, I think his name is, Matt G. he has a web page with what looks like a very effective, pretty simple design, spring compressor. If you don't have a welder get one of you buddies to help you out, and build it. Looks like a pretty simple project shouldn't take more than a couple of hours. As Cub61 says, the drive shaft MUST stop turning when you step on the peddle. I have an Original that will sometimes stick when you first start it. From setting on the seat you can look down throught the hole in the frame and watch the shaft as you step on the peddle to see if it stops or not. I watched your vid several times last night, I musta had something else on my mind because I didn't get a whole lot out of it this time. However if I remember correctly, in one shot (I think it was the one of the front bearing) it looked like the whole shaft moved a little toward the front of the tractor, that shouldn't happen. I think Cub61 is right about taking it apart and finding out what the problem is. This may require posting pictures of the parts, but I don't think you're gonna get it fixed any other way. Don't freak out about taking it apart and getting it back together again, after all, you have the help of some of the best Cub Cadet mechanic's in the world right here at your finger tips. |
I got in touch with Matt... after I get the clutch compressor built, he said I may have to modify it to work on an original I'll be sure to post plenty of pictures.
|
quick update... I took the parts to make the clutch compressor over to a friends house, also took the clutch... I got it apart and two things happened... the lining fell out of the clutch pulley, the side facing the front of the tractor, cracked in about 3 pieces. 2nd I couldn't find the teasing spring.... So... I'm gonna need some parts.
|
Didn't you say you bought another clutch off ebay? Are the parts from that one any good?
|
the one I got off ebay, at the time I didn't know it, but the locking collar in front is missing, and whoever had it cut a groove of the pressure plate and shoved a narrow screwdriver shaft to hold it together. I guess that's what you get for $10. I haven't taken that one apart, I just took the original one over to his house to take apart. I won't get a chance to get back up to his house till this weekend, but I'll try and see what's good on it.
|
Well here's what's going on so far... Come to find out there is a guy who works with my dad who dabbles in cubs. I took the clutch to him on Sunday, said "yep, you need a teaser". He was nice enough to scramble around and rebuild from my ebay clutch and the original clutch. He said everything looked decent, he had a spring from a 70 he put on. So I go today and put the clutch back in... Same thing... This just came to my head, but can I be getting the belt too tight and that's causing the shaft to constantly spin? I don't know...
|
gcbailey,
I read in the manual something like "if the belt is too tight it will cause erratic behavior". I can look it up if need be. BTW. I've been following this with great interest. I just got an OCC about 3 weeks ago and the clutch is on my list for a rebuild. So I'm learning with ya. :biggrin2.gif::beerchug: |
1 Attachment(s)
Last sentence in the paragraph attached from the Original Operators Manual on page 19.
|
SUCCESS!!!! (hopefully) I did some more playing around and kept going back on the tightness in the belt, but also to the play in the brake/clutch. Well I did a couple more turns on the clutch rod and it wouldn't go in the clutch arm. But it looked like it should, I had some play back and forth in the arm and kept wiggling around, and finally took a pair of linemen pliars and beat it in. Guess what... the drive shaft doesn't spin when the brake it applied now! But... the lever assembly/yoke is tight against the collar. Will this hurt me? I know the IH svc manual says distance between .005~.030 Well I think I'm at .000001 . Here's another video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pAnlWpWcW4
PS... I've left the tension on the belt alone for the moment. |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:39 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.