Operation "Redemption" KT17 rebuild
 

Me; "Forgive me father for I have sinned. I let the motor in my Cub Cadet 782 get low on oil. It held on as long as itr could, but eventually, the strain was too great, and it failed. Broke a rod, added an extra hole to the engine case."

Pastor Kolher; "Don't despair, my child, we all have fallen short. To make a mense, you must repair the damage. You must resist the temptation to look at another brand of engine, do not covet a re-power kit! Repair the KT, make it better!"

Oh well, you get the jist, trying to find some humor in a screw up. I think I have it ready to reassemble. If you saw my other thread about the genset that I bought, this is the rest of the story. :http://onlycubcadets.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16827

The fisrt issue was the 10-24 screw that hold the stator on. The genset motor didn't have a stator, just a fan shroud. (3) of the (4) screws broke when I tried to remove them. I drilled them out, and re-tapped them, but I was not happy with them;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3563.jpg
So I bought this;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3567.jpg
And put inserts in them;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3570.jpg
Next was this oil block off plate, I mean really? So that could not be allowed to go. I had some scrap aluminum, so I rectified that situation.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3564.jpg
I bought a remote oil filter kit used off of eBay. I was on a zero turn 24hp unit, now it will be on my 782;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3566.jpg
Then I saw the pressure port on the motor above the dipstick emboss. So a quick visit to Summit racing website yielded a 2" oil pressure gauge;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3565.jpg

If you looked at the other thread at all, you'll see some one advised using the Governor from the tractor motor, as the genset was set to 1600 rpm. Well thanks for the heads up, cause sure enough the wieghts on the genset were much larger. I swapped it out, but had to use the shaft from the genset, as it rides on roller bearings and is longer.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3572.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3573.jpg
After that I swapped over the oil fill and dipstick.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3574.jpg
Tomorrow I will attempt to put humpty dumpty back together again. If you see anything I'm missing, please speak up, THANKS.

MWShaw
Nice work and modifications :ThumbsUp:

What Diz said!

ya might want to "pin" that Gov.puppy!
I run the oil filter in the origional position on the side of the block.
I just made a nice clearance hole in the air deflector, no problems.
either way works good.
Make sure the in and out lines are in the correct location.

And awesome pics too!:beerchug:

Thanks for the service buletin on pinning the govener shaft.

As far as the in and out of the oil lines, I'm believe the center hole is the pressure or feed port. The vacant area below that is the return? I plan the plumb the "feed" or pressure hole, to the center of the filter head adapter. This would drive the oil from the center of the filter, outward.

I think thats right?

Thanks!

Thanks!

Thanks!

IIRR ideally filters input liquid on the outside of filter as there is more surface area for filtration,and
the fluids exit the filter in the center.
there is a diagram on this forum somewhere thinking it is labeled "A" & "B"
I'm sure someone will chime in.

Don't know if you put a new Gov gear in or if your using the old one,but if it was me I'd put a new one in. It seems to be a common failure issue as the get older.

Your right, I had it backwards, thanks!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...et/lubric2.jpg

I think we are making progress, could possibly be cutting grass this weekend?

Crank cleaning;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3577.jpg

Checking the bearing alignment;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3579.jpg

Crank and cam in place;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3581.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3580.jpg

Putting con rods on;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3582.jpg

Installing the cover plate;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3583.jpg

Pulled the valves out;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3585.jpg

That genset motor definatly sat outside and got water in it.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3586.jpg

After blasting;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3587.jpg

Used lapping compound to lap the valves back in;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3588.jpg

Should be good;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3589.jpg

Lightly blasted the heads also;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3590.jpg

Got the cylinders insatlled;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3591.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3592.jpg

Then the heads and tins;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3593.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...t/IMG_3594.jpg

Couple of odds and ends tomorrow.

I have to get the little breather element that goes under the baffle on the one cylinder.

Then finish up the motor, squirt some black paint on it.

Clean the chassis up, install the motor, install the remote oil filter, install the oil pressure gauge, and then?

Awesome workmanship and pics!

Looks good! I cant tell from the pics where the valve is seating on the lap. It should be right in the center of the valve face. If it isnt then you need to move it, by cutting the seat. Then lap it to see where the valve is seating. I know all about engs under water! :bash2: Ill be rebuilding one of mine this winter.

Just a afterthought, did the valve clearance work out ok?
You 'prolly had to adjust the length of the valves as there is no "adjustment"
on the lifter. if not, now is the time to take care of that.
looking good so far!

Glad you're making some good progress! Thanks for the pics.

I would clean those heads up with a sheet of glass and sandpaper. What you have now is probably not going to seal well. And now it's too late, but do not sandblast aluminum...it creates a whole bunch of little stress risers that can/will initiate cracks.

George is right, the tourque speck on the jugs if I remember right is like 10 lbs. And if your clearance isnt right and you have to grind them, if you dont grind them right they wont spin in the guide. Then if its too open you have to cut the seat. When you cut the seat, and then lap, the lap tells you where your seating at. It took me a bit to get the M18 on the 1872 right. Ive only cut seats 3 times, so Im still green at it. My boss used to build Jr drag cars for a race team so hes been teaching me. Lots to be learned in the head work.

I saves a 14 hp block that needs resleved with the big intake and exaust valves. Ill do some porting and polishing on this block and hop it up like the 10 hp I have.

When I worked at Cat and after hours I would sand blast parts, I was told by some of the guys in the shop that heads shouldnt be sand blasted of these engs. Dont know if its true or not, but never have. I use alum cleaner for the fuel tanks on trucks to clean them. And I have a piece of flat granite in my shop that I use to check them. Any piece of glass will work fine too, as long as your wife isnt looking at the coffee table! :Shhhh:

I was careful keep the tappets and valves in thier original locations, so the cylinder that was orignal to the genset crankcase, the valve clearances came out .004" on the intake, and .012' on the exhaust, I did not have to adjust at all. On the cylinder that was off of the Cub crankcase, those were zeroed out. I had to grind the valve stems, on each valve. Intake ended up @ .003 / exhaust @ .012"

Ok, Thanks for the heads up. I'll pull those heads off and replace them with the ones from the genset engine. I tried to use as much of the genset engine as I could, because it was such a low hour unit, but the heads each had (1) of the 1/4-20 screws broke off in them. The screws that retain the tins. No biggie, I'll drill those out and retap them.

In my defense, the tip of the sand blaster never came within 18" of the heads, I was just trying to remove the carbon. I could have sworn I read that in the service manual, where it was a recomended proceedure. But after I read you comment I went back and rechecked it, and it is not there. I must have seeing things. I have not fired the engine up yet, so I think it will be fine.

I did get it bolted back into the tractor yesterday afternoon, man that rear bolt on the starter side :bash2::bash2::bash2::bash2:. Wow, I had to walk away from it for a minute, and take a break.

I am working out the location of the remote filter head, most likely I'll put it below the gas tank. I am a little bummed about the oil pressure gauge. The only spot on the dash board where It will fit is rigth where it say "Cub Cadet" embossed in the plastic dash. But oh well. Such is life I guess.

Does anyone have a pic of a 782 engine compartment with the wires acbles hooked up, I'm having brain fade with the throttle cable / governer configuration. I thougth I took more pictures, before disassembly, but I guess not.:bash2:

Thanks for all the help.

Some how I missed this one? I did use the complete assembly from the cub motor.

Well I'm think I'm gonna risk it, as it would require splitting the cases back down.

You could use glass beads, walnut shells, etc, but not sand. It doesn't matter how close you got, It's very clear in the picture that the surface is very rough and pitted. Even if you cleaned up the gasket surface, new carbon would stick readily to the rough surface of the combustion chamber and be nearly impossible to remove in the future.

Here's a suggestion: There's no need to see the hourmeter while the tractor is in use, so stick that under the hood somewhere and put the oil pressure gauge in its place.

Could be wrong but I think, the only gov. problem they had is mentioned in the service bulletin I sent along.
Do remember to re torque the heads after it comes up to temp,-- full operating temp--HOT!
or you will replace the head gaskets. BTDT
Be advised when that series of engine is hot, as in after a mowing, it will have a "valve clatter" and you'd swear they are set too loose.
IIRR I saw it in a service bulletin that,
the later Kohlers, changed the valve angle from 45* to 30* and they have a different cam ## but I don't know if it was to help the clatter or other reasons I've not been able to determine.
On the filter location, I chose to retain the one on the block:
#1, because i didn't have a remote setup,
and #2, I couldn't decide where I wanted it mounted remotely.

Darn fine idea, Thanks!

No I did not see anything in the service manual about retorguing when hot? So just leave the tins off, for the first mow?

Yeah, now I'm wishing I would have gotten the adater, to mount the filter on the block. Hindsight is 20/20.

monday morning quarterback Ha,LOL!
BTDT
I would not leave the tins off it gets really hot and without the tins on it, ya might do damage.
ya I know it's a pain, but most all air cooled engines really need a retorque. Better do it now than re-do the head gskts and have to retorque anyhow.
You will not believe how "loose" the bolts become!!
After you warm it up,idle @ first, run it @ 3/4 rpms while looking for things ya forgot or leaks etc. for maybe 15 min. then you can retorque.
or if you have a mow job of that duration.
The tins are not that bad to remove other than the lower bolts on the bottom.
You mentioned the lower starter bolt. when in the chassis if you have to remove the starter for some reason, a couple of extensions and a universal comming in from the front gets it done.
Also Matt G made a bent/pretzel box wrench that works good ( pix on here somewhere)
Now before you "fire" it, crank it with the plugs out for a bit as EVERYTHING is dry including the filter!!
put a couple of "squirts" of oil in the cylinders for the rings.
---On smaller engines I like to fill with oil to proper level then tumble them
360* while holding in my hands to get oil on the internal parts, it sure as heck don't hurt anything, if done quickly.
Luck!

Man those genset heads were in good shape. I could not get .0015" under them anywhere. I put a piece of 400 on a granite surface plate, cleaned them up a little, then checked them with the feelers. Drilled out the broken 1/4s, ran a tap in there, will swap them out with the other heads.

Went to HD, and bought an assortment of 1/8 NPT fittings, the flexi hoses that came on the remote oil filter head, need a little help. A few 90s and short nipples should be the ticket.

those last 2 sentences sure could be twisted but I won't go there,as this is a family forum. :biggrin2:
If you decide on going with the location on the block lemmeknow I'll shoot ya a pix of how it looks (it's rainning now) sure works/looks slick.

Yeah, I was typing fast, I maybe should have proof read that?

Thanks for the offer of the pics, if you get the chance that would be great, I most likely committed to the remote one, I may have past the point of no return, on that.

What did that helicopter pilot say, in that predator movie? "PSR" / "Point of Safe Return"?

George

some good info you have passed on.

LOL short nipples thats good.

Ive been buying the adapters off ebay when I can to put the oil filter on the side of the block. I dont have any idea why they used a remote filter on these engs with the cub spec number. It seems that every one leaks around the oil lines.

Yes George has, As have you Matt, and others. Thanks for all the input, and help getting this motor done correct. I want it back to it's old dependable self. I do appreciate it, from all you.

The remote filter I bought was off of an Toro Z355? it had a 25hp Kohler in it. I really hope the lines don't leak, but if it does, I'll fix it.

Short nipples? don't need no short nipples ha,LOL!

Sounds like you tried to bolt the engine to the engine plate with the plate already in the frame. It's much easier to remove/install the engine when it is attached to the plate.

AJ

NOW you tell me!!!!!:bash2::bash2::bash2:

Yep it's easy to pull or replce when you remove the 6 bolts from the plate. :biggrin2:

Thanks George, and to show my appreciation, I post up that nipple pic.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...Picture006.jpg
You ever see a Cub with such pretty -------?

A little progress tonight, getting closer. Here's the plate where the remote filter head mounts;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...Picture002.jpg

Filter in place;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...Picture003.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...Picture004.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...Picture005.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...Picture008.jpg
I know the lines are going over the drive shaft, but I think it will work.

Next I took Matt's advise and relocated the hour meter under the hood. Then put the oil pressure gauge in it's old position. Thanks Matt.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...Picture009.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...Picture012.jpg

I don't have to work tomorrow, so hopefully I can finish it up.

Thanks for the great progress pics!

Looking good...If I were you'd I'd put a few washers between the bracket and the oil filter mount to get the lines a little further away from the driveshaft.

:beerchug::beerchug:

The pictures are deceiving, there's a good 1.5" between that lower line and the drive shaft. My rag joint was shot when I pulled the engine, it was basically spinning on (1) of the (2) bolts.

Even as bad as that was it would not have swung far enough to hit the lines where they are at now. If you look at where the bracket attaches to the frame rail, I have it under the rail, I could move it the top, but really feel there is no need.

Ok, that's not bad...in the picture, it looked like there was about 1/4" of clearance with the bottom line.

I would like to put a oil presser gage on my 1812. How did you pulm the lines? could you get a pic?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...sureswitch.jpg

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EQU-6244

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-890091

I'll get more pictures tomorrow.