Slow cranking 149
 

The K321 in my 149 seems to crank over very slowly. I have a brand new 340 CCA battery and I have swapped the starter/generator from my 125 and it still seems to struggle to crank fast enough to start. I don't know if it would ever start in real cold weather. I had thought it was a bad S/G but the swap has ruled that out. Are the bigger K321s just harder to start or is there more that I should look into?

The magnum 12 in the 1211 I have turns over about as fast as my 3 year old daughter can count, and always starts.

Does it stop cranking, or crank slowly, or not crank at all at times?

There are several things that you can do to help improve the cranking speed, like clean all connections-especially the ground connections to make sure that you have a really good contact to bare metal. I use high grit sandpaper to clean my connections. A new spark plug, clean the points, it might be time for a new coil and plug wire, which greatly improves the speed of cranking and since it is a 149, the hydro oil can be thick and slow it down, so new hytran and new filter may also help.

Cub Cadet 123

It always cranks. It just seems very lethargic. The wiring is a mess on this tractor. I plan to buy a new harness when things slow down at work. I'll be sure to clean all connections when I install the new wires. The points look fairly clean. I guess I could replace the plug and wire. How would the ignition components effect the cranking though? Do they suck up too much power due to higher resistance (as rusted/corroded/dirty connections would too) and slow down the starter?

As mentioned, ground is a big deal on these tractors. And the hydro fluid also makes a differance, more so in cold areas.
The reason I asked about the cranking was my 123 had a bad ACR automatic compression release, was just a thought. But if it were that it would crank a little and stop, back the SG by hand and try it again, sometimes it would go, and most times not.

Yes, like a good tune-up on a vehicle, new plug wires, dist. cap, plugs, etc. attention to a clean, including insulated, electrical system makes a difference in the electrical current....think it's called the isothermal conductivity or something like that (??). For instance, if wires were cut and spliced, then soldered without being wrapped, then some of that electrical current is lost as it is passed down the line to make it's connection. Here's an analogy, it's like you are going to your local cub dealer to buy some hy-tran to help improve the performance of your cub, but you decide to stop at McD's and service your Big Mac attack. Then you head back out to the dealer and there's a very nice looking babe having car trouble along the side of the road, so you stop to help her out. Afterwards, you head back out to the cub dealer and see a Super GT along the side of the road and you stop to ask, "How much?". Then you head back out to get the hy-tran......and an hour later you get to the dealer and find it's too late and they are closed! That's like the electrical current on it's mission to starting your cub......only a little embellished with my stupid story. The insulation makes sure that it focuses on its mission of getting there as efficiently as possible, without any distractions.

Cub Cadet 123

A new wiring harness should make a difference, it did on my 147.

My 1210 used to turn over slow until I replaced the battery cables with welding cable and ran the ground to the engine rather than the frame. Just my 2 cents but the factory cables are to small. :biggrin2:

Ground Cable
 

If not already installed try a ground cable from the S/G mount to the frame.

No, that doesn't make any sense at all. Higher resistance = less current draw by those components. Take the plug wire off (infinite resistance) and it will still crank exactly the same as if the plug wire were connected. The condition of the ignition circuit has nothing to do with the cranking system. If the plug and/or wire were bad, the tractor wouldn't run.

Nonsense. The insulation is there so the wires don't short out against each other, the tractor's frame, etc. Current is not 'lost as it is passed down the line' with or without insulation. The current in a circuit for a given voltage depends on the resistance of the circuit, which is not affected by the insulation on the wiring.

Do not rule out the battery also. Just went through this. When I repowered my 682 with the CH-18 I bought a new 340cca battery from NAPA. Thing turned over really slow and would barely fire. Checked and cleaned all the grounds and still no improvement. Last ditch effort was to pull the battery and have it checked. They put it on the load tester and it was found to have a bad cell right out of the box. Another new battery and it cranks at blazing speed now and fires about the first revolution. Just something else to check.

Matt makes good sense in his reply you do not lose current in the line but you do lose power. If your resistance is high between the battery and starter you will have more of a drop between these two points. Thus ending up with less Voltage at the starter and less power. Resulting in slower turning of the starter.

If you still have the original battery cables (I believe they were 10 gauge) in the tractor you will benefit by changing them out with larger cables 4 gauge or greater.

I agree that cleaning up and replacing the wiring should help. Like I said it is a mess. Lots of splices and dirty connections too. This summer I plan to tear the tractor down a bit, do some cleaning, and make some repairs. I'll redo the wiring when it is easy to get at it. It starts ok, but I'm not sure if it would start on a cold winter night for snow duty like this. At least I know that I don't have to rebuild the starter/generator. I'll upgrade the main power wires when I do it too.

One person suggested that it could be the ACR acting up. How could I troubleshoot that? I plan to pull the engine and remove the balance gears this summer as part of the tear down.

I beg to differ. I do remember covering this in my Advanced Calculus III class as isothermal conductivity, looking at the gradient and using the del operator to calculuate this through partial differientiation! Electricity travels through the shortest path of least resistance and lack of insulated wiring can cause arcing.

Cub Cadet 123

Clarification: I've been referring to the effects of the ignition system (rather the lack thereof) on the start circuit. Obviously if the starter cables are in bad condition, the resistance will be higher, and the current will drop as a result, and the power (V*I) is then reduced as a result.

Math teachers/professors generally cannot apply their theoretical knowledge to real life. I have had 3 or 4 electrical engineering classes, none of which covered what you claim...show us a verifiable source. The insulation prevents wires from arcing as you say, but has NOTHING to do with the current-carrying capability of the wire. The resistance of a wire depends on the resistivity of the conductor material (itself a function of temperature), the cross-sectional area, and the length. Strip all of the insulation off of all of your tractor's wiring, figure out a way to keep them separated so they don't arc or short, and it will function the same as with all of the insulation intact.

slow cranking
 

if you pull the spark ,and roll the engine over ,and stay by the cam side of the engine ,and can hear a click ,when the engine rolls over ,the c/r spring is broke or to weak to hold the c/r in place .that will let the exhaust valve close ,and it will do what you say the engine is doing .i had this happend to me ,when i had sold the cub ,and had very short time to repair it ,before the guy came to get the cub ,i was able to lift the engine ,and pull the cover off the cam ,and replace the new spring ,i just tyed a thread to the spring ,to keep it from falling to the pan ,hope this helps .David

My 149 has always crank over slowly. One thing you need to remember is your turning the hydraulic pump over when you crank the motor. The battery in my 70 came from my 149. It wouldn't crank the 149 over but cranks the 70 engine. This battery is 8 years old.

Two things I did to my 149 were to add a ground wire from the battery to the bolt holding the starter on the 149. The other is do not let an attachment rest on the ground when you are done for the day. The battery will drain itself if you leave an metal attachment reat on the ground.

I don't agree that the battery will "drain itself" that is an old wives tale.
Just like setting a battery on cement during storage.
But I respect your opinion.

I thought the same thing too with my motorcycle. The only thing I change was adding a thin board between the kickstand and the ground. Never had a problem after that.

Something came up and I left the moldboard plow connected to my 149 sitting on the ground for a week. I had to charge the battery up to run the tractor.

You may or may not have the same problem.

Interesting! Could this be why my 123's battery goes dead with the tiller on the ground? Replaced two batteries the one was less than six months old.
(sorry for jumping in on your thread)

I'm thinking that the battery draining with implements on the ground is just a symptom of another electrical issue. There must be another "leak" open circuit somewhere. My tractors sit all winter with the front blades down, and with steel tire chains that touch the wheel weights and I have never had this problem.

Battery tenders. Great cheap insurance. I use them year round.

The only time I have this problem is when the plow, blade or snowthrower is resting on the ground for a period of time. I doubt it's an electrical/leak/open circuit issue.

It could be a frame short that is giving you the problem. The entire frame becomes energized through a short and then goes to ground (plow,tiller,kickstand,etc.)

Also, agreeing with MattG on the whole insulation thing. The point of the insulation is not to guide the current, instead it is to keep the current from finding 'less than desirable' destinations. Take, for example, the old knob and tube wiring that was in buildings. Bare wire, with the same results as modern insulated wire.

If you discussed this as part of an isothermal conductivity study, perhaps it was due to the insulation keeping the wire warm or cooling the wire off. Since the wiring on cubs does not use superconductors, extreme heat or cold cases are not realistic, OR deal with extremely long runs of wire (where the resistance caused by the distance would cause the conductor to change temperature and change conductive properites), calculus doens't really help us. Unless it's Physics 2 (which is calculus based).