Power steering question
 

I received the power steering valve by mail and would like to clean it out. Does anyone know what to use and how best to do it? When I turn the shaft it gurgles and spits but I'm not sure what to do next. Also, below is a diagram of the PS system and I would like for any of you who know which is the pressure side and the suction side of the system to help me be sure I have it right. I have #9 as the pressure and # 6/8/12 as the return. Is that the way you see it? It's hard to see it on the picture but #9 goes into the valve at the "In" port and #8 goes to the "Out" port and #7 goes from the "Aux" port up to the lift valve. The other issue I will have is that I have the other style lift valve and will need to convert the ends of 1862 lines to the old style fittings. Any experienced person want to chime in on this? The ram lines and ports are marked clearly and should be no problem. The picture sorta makes the lines look real long but in real life the bottom of the valve to the bottom of the lift valve is only about 10 inches.
That makes #7about 10 or 11 inches long. #6 will be about the same but will go to the "T" fitting.

Rudy, there is a detailed section in the 72-82 series service manual. I have not done one yet but I will soon. I hear that JD is cheaper on the parts. Make sure and take some pictures for us...you know how we are.:biggrin2:

Power steering
 

Yeah, I was surprised that the JD stuff was so much cheaper but when you go on their web site you see 350 viewing at the time you are on it. Our's is about 50 or less most of the time. I missed out on steering valve at $126 but got the next one for $125. The CC models are going for the high $100's to low to mid $200's. Just be sure and get the 5 port model. Evidently they made a four port model that won't work on our CC's. It looks like a straight bolt on except for fabricating the lines/hoses to fit the new configuration. Once I bought the JD GX335 which had PS I could not go back. To be able to turn the wheels in either direction while stopped was amazing. I did not want to keep the JD but wanted to keep and use my CC 1811 that I have come to know and love. We are both old and need work to keep us going! As soon as I get some parts I will break out the camera. I know what picture freaks we all are too. I'm still waiting for some help on the hydro fittings for the new lines.

Hydraulic headache
 

I got the ram and a whole box of hard lines today from Rich at Patton's and started my testing assembly of all of the parts. The ram went on just like the book shows however when I turn the wheel to the left it hits the ram before it runs out of turning room. I did not have the drag link on so maybe that will help. The ram lines hooked up without any issues but that's where the fun ended. Rich sent me a long line that will fit from the tranny output port (pressure) to the #9 input port on the steering valve but the original 90 degree turn from the tranny is too far out on the new line and hits the drive shaft flex joint. Is there a way to cut the line and re-flare it with the end fitting still on the line? I can slide it down to where the line bends but I don't think there will be enough line to get the flare tool on. The line from the valve aux port to the hyd raise/lower valve is pretty simple and should not be a problem. The mother of all line problems is going to be the return lines that all come together and then back to the tranny. Chip, who sold me the front 1862 axle said that he used brake lines and flared them himself. I haven't been able to find anyone in my area that sells the end fittings. Do any of you know a source for the 3/8 fittings? In the pictures below you can see the line with the 90 degree bend next to the OEM line and where I have straightened the new one some. If I did get the new line cut and flared how would I put the 90 degree bend back in the line so close to the fitting?The next pic is the ram hitting the left front wheel. Then the box of lines that Rich sent to help me out and finally the steering column that I had to add about 10 inches to.

I got my 3/8 fittings at Napa

Napa
 

That's the first place I tried but they said they don't carry that stuff any longer. Even their brake line selection was one little rack and they were all pre-made.

I ran into the same thing on the ram hitting the wheel on the my 782 P.S. converson, using a deere ram
I just extended the axle stubs on the front spindles.
It seems like 2-1/2"--- works great and makes the front end feel more stable on turns.
Those fittings are Jic Hyd fittings, "parker" is one name brand, I think Granger has them.
I see them on evilpay very often.

Rudy, I got my fittings at a tractor repair shop that makes up hydraulic lines. They had all sorts of fittings. Any of them should have them.
I don't understand why the ram would be hitting the tire though. That is a power steering axle. Do you have a picture of the whole steering ram from its mount to the spindle?
I'll get some pictures of what I used to bend a flare my lines. Just cheapo tools.

I bought this Gates flaring tool on ebay for around $25. I just looked and couldn't find one like it but there are several on there. This one will do 45 and 37 degree flares. I think I got the bender at harbor freight on the cheap.

Good info guys
 

I see that there is always a way to do anything just from your responses. Chip, how do you make a 90 degree bend like the ones on top of the tranny with the fitting already on the line? Or did you do the bend first and then put the fitting on the line and then flared it? I was looking at the PS kit for the 82 series that was offered by IH as a DIY conversion kit. They used a combination of unions, 90 D elbows and hoses to do most of the conversion. I was thinking of keeping the two main lines from the tranny and using unions and short hoses for the final connection. Any comments on this method? In the conversion kit they used 90 d elbows on the PS valve and then hoses or short lines with another 90 d on the end. I found a place near me that makes hoses and they have all of the needed fittings for hoses but none for lines. Chip, did you use 3/8 brake line to make your lines? Is there any special way to bend or re-form the OEM lines? They seem so damn hard that I was afraid I would break them. Would heat help? I'm on a search and decide mission today to see if I can find some local answers. Once again thank you for your ideas. BTW, George, how did you extend the fron axles?

I ground the weld away and removed the original stub axle off the 'C" shaped pivot.
Having a piece or 2-1/2" dia. bar stock on hand, I turned it down on one end to fit the wheel, (1" dia)
On the other end I turned it down to 1" also, but only 1/4" long, as a locating stub to go into the "C" shaped pivot and welded it to duplicate as was stock.
That puts the wheel 2" farther away than original, and strength is added so as not to bend it because of the larger diameter as is shown in the pix.
Both wheels were done that way.
I really like the stability of the wider stance, the difference is like day and night on my side hills.

A Witch or a lathe
 

George you either have a witch or a lathe at home because you turned things into other things! I'm assuming it is a lathe although my wife can turn me into bad things with just her voice. I too have a lot of steep hills and that may be an option if I meet a friendly machinist. I was thinking of cutting off a little of the ram stroke rod and threading it a little more towards the cylinder. That would be something that A I can do at home. Would there be a problem with anything if I did that? Also, on my 1862 front axle the steering arm is not at 90 degrees to the wheel when straight. It is about twenty degrees toward the front when the wheel is going straight ahead. In the instructions for the PS kit for the 82 series it says to make sure that the arm is in line with the axle when the wheel is forward. I also found a supplier today here in Atlanta. I went to Garinger's first and the guy sent me to American Hose where they had EVERYTHING I will ever need plus hard lines and all of the fittings needed to finish the job. They are about half the price of Garinger's.

Over the years I have picked up a few machines for my machine shop.
Most of it is old like me, and run by flat belt.
If a fellow is to have fun ya need equipment to keep the vintage things running because you just can’t buy parts, you have to make them.
‘Prolly the pix will explain more that words here on my modified bracket.
I'm thinking the cub cyl. is smaller in diameter and the rod is longer than the Deere, that would clear the tire as the rod, not the Cyl. would be alongside the tire.
And that would put it about right for a 82 series steering arm. ya don't want to shorten the cyl rod till you check out the stroke.
You can see where I put the rod mounting hole in relation to the original hole, in the widened bracket.
Don’t forget to check clearance when the whole axle pivots as it would encounter a bump.
My Heim joint comes real close to the mule drive when it comes up on the left side.
It takes a bit to get it all correct, but that is 1/2 of the fun!
Now as far as a Witch, I used to know a practicing one that on a full moon she—well that is another story for another day :biggrin2:

Good News/Bad news
 

As I mentioned above I found a supply house for all of the lines, hoses and Jic fittings that I will need but then when I go home I ran into another problem. I bought a PS valve bracket from Extreme Motorworks and it doesn't fit my tractor. I can make it work but the bottom of the valve hangs down too low. I cannot find how far below the frame rail the valve should be and was wondering if any of you could take a measurement and let me know. I'm afraid if I go with the bracket the way it is now it will interfere with the mule or mower hanger. Once I get the measurement I can cut the bracket I have so that it will hold the valve at the proper height and then I can cut my lines and hoses to fit that height. Here is a picture of the bracket I have now. I actually need the "Y" shaped type that only fits over two of the studs. I'll be glad to trade with anyone who needs this brand new one for your old rusty one! Here is the one I need that is NLA. I can make one if I knew the demensions. If anyone has one that you can get to I would appreciate the measurements of it.

Hi I am going to be doing the same swap your doing right now as soon as get some other projects finished. I have all of the parts to do it it exept for the lines. I think the P/S valve braket you have now is only for supers if you look at the parts break down on cubs website for the 1862 and 1864 it shows two brakets the Y bracket like you mentioned and there is also a bracket that runs across the frame rails with a U bolt that supports the tube of the steering valve. these are pretty simple brakets it looks like they would be easy to make. I can take some pictures and mesurements of the ones I have if you would like. Let me know wally

Thanks Wally
 

I would appreciate the help and when I get through with the lines and fittings I will publish my findings so that maybe it will help you and anyone else that wants to do this conversion.

I'm not sure why the bracket from a super wouldn't work, as that area of the frame is the same on a super and a GT. There is no additional depth on a super frame, and the extra length is at the back.

Bracket fit
 

Matt, I have tried every angle and it will fit one way but it is upside down from the depicted way in any of the pictures of other tractors and it makes the PS valve hang down too far below the frame rails. If you notice that the notched corner of the bracket should face to the front right to match up with the cut off stud on the PS valve. Well if I try that, there is no way to get it to fit. The cross brace in the frame gets in the way and if I raise it up enough to clear the brace then the slope at the top of the side rail hits the top edge of the bracket where the holes are. I guess that's why they went to a simpler bracket on some models or to save money. There are two holes in my frame rail that match up perfectly with the bracket but the lower cross brace that has the brake safety switch mounted on it is in the way. I'm thinking about using the two holes that held the OEM column in place and modifying the bracket to fit them. Or if Wally sends me the measurements on the "Y" bracket I can cut the bracket I have to match it. The main problem I have with fabricating a bracket is that I do not know how low to let the valve hang down. It looks to me that IH used the same frame drill jigs on the frame rails even though some of the holes would not work on every model. Thanks for jumping in and keep it up.
Rudy

Now that I think about it a bit more, I think the crossmember in a super frame is different and in a slightly different location. It's been awhile since I've had my 1872 apart so I can't remember. I think bottom of the valve is about 1/2" to 3/4" above the bottom of the frame, so the hard lines stick out just below the bottom of the frame.

MATT
The cross member is in a different spot, and is a different shape. This is a problem that I ran into mocking up my project with non-power steering. I will have to cut the cross member out from a regular 82 and switch them out on the super frame.

I don't know if it will help you fellows, but on my 782 I made a 3" "C" shaped bracket and mounted it to the cross piece that origionally mounted the manual box.
It sits on top of the cross piece directly above the 2 holes (3" higher) that the manual steering.
The steering wheel winds up 1" closer to the dash (using a deere p.s. Gear)
The gear just clears the driveshaft 1/4"
Sorry about the lousy pix, but the bracket is on the left side of pix mounted to the bottom of the gear.

I did the same thing!
 

That's funny George because after trying to get the big bracket I bought from Extreme to fit, I realized that the two holes on the cross brace were originally there for that purpose. I took my bracket and cut off the side mounting holes and bent the remainder so that it was down and the mounting plate with the big hole and four smaller ones was up. Then I used the OEM steering column to locate the new holes and then welded nuts to the back of the bent plate and now have a bracket like yours and Oak's. I also learned that you have to use the two hydro lines that run under the tranny tunnel cover because of their impossible to recreate shapes. I got the return line, the left one sitting on the tractor, to fit on a "T" coming off of the implement lift valve where it was attached before at the out port. I discovered that if you use a male, male, female "T", with the female end connecting to the valve, it allows you to turn the middle outlet any which way you need to to fit the return line. The OEM return line was actually a perfect fir after about a hundred tiny bends and twists. On the other line, the pressure line, I ended up with it straightened out and turned downward toward the bottom of the steering valve. I will use a short hose with a union and 90 Degree terminal for that connection. That only leaves the Aux port on the PS valve to go to the "in" port on the lift valve. I will probably use another short hose with a straight female end and a 90 degree on the other end. I'll take some photos and put them here for any of you stupid, er uh, brave enough to do this conversion.
Another thing I found out when bending and fitting the hard lines is that ALWAYS screw the tranny end on first every time you remove and replace it.
Even if you have to do it a hundred times, like I did, always screw the tranny end on first. You don't have to tighten it but snug it up with your fingers.
The reason is that it is the known shape and it must be maintained and the other end is the new one and is being changed. I think I figured out why the ram was hitting the tire. The steering arm was too far forward of the axle when going straight ahead and when a left turn was initiated it went too far forward and allowed the ram to hit the wheel. I also added two inches to the height of my steering column because it was too low for my taste. I could actually hit my knuckles if I was turning and changing speeds at the same time due to my steering knob and with the new seat it sat me up a little higher than originally. Now I can sit back and reach the wheel without getting the old farmer's hunch. I want all of you to know that I am going to paint every thing after I get it all fitted!

Way to stick with it! I think you've turned the corner on this upgrade. Looking forward to your finished PS upgrade!:beerchug:

I totally agree!

Where to find 37 degree flaring tool?
 

I have looked all over ebay, CL and NAPA but no one has a reasonable 37 degree flaring tool. Is there one out there that I don't know about that you guys have discovered? If I can't find a cheap one I guess I'll have to pay to have them flared. NEVER MIND! I found one at Amazon.com for $20.

45* flair works just fine.
I never had one leak, the line conforms to the 37* fittings.

You and I think alike George.
 

I figured with all of these CC all over the country and the number of owners that are going to go out and buy a 37 degree flaring tool has got to be small. I figured that the ball shape of the Jic fittings would reform the 45 degree to it's shape since the tubing is soft metal. But in any case I found a cheap 37 D and will see how it goes. I might not use any more line since the three short lines I need can all be hoses. I like hoses around moving parts and near the ground because they offer more resilience to bumps and pushes. George has done some pretty hydraulic work with those nice symmetric lines going into the valve. Mine will be a little more utilitarian. I have question about the start up when I get it all back together. What's the procedure to get oil into all of the new lines? On the FEL I built it was to cycle the control valves a few times until things started to happen. Do I do the same thing now. Man I can't wait to be sitting high and steerig with my arms straight out and my back in the seat smelling that E85 flowing out of my Kohler M18! I'll be sure to let you all know what the difference is from my old tractor.

Just cycle the steering/lift control while the engine is running slow. the oil will learn how to find the "cheese" and never forget :biggrin2:
You will like the P.S, no more sore arms after 3+ hours mowing around many trees/obstacles.

George, the mind reader!
 

That's exactly why I wanted the PS! I have about two acres and lots of shrubs and trees to mow around. When these CC's are moving real slow turning is a bear. At the end of the day my forearms felt like lead and I am starting to look like Popeye! Thanks for the tip on getting the oil to all the parts.

It's alive!!!!
 

I got everything connected today and started the old girl up. The wheels started turning in about one minute with no effort and there were no leaks! I had to re-weld the axle adjusters back on my 1811 frame because the axle moved back and forth from the ram action and it made a real sloppy control. Now the only slop I have is in the old ball joints on the ram ends. It was so nice to take her out for a spin around the yard and wheeling around trees and objects without any effort. I learned a lot doing this project but like most things will probably never do it again. However I will be glad to help anyone who sets out to try it. One of the monkey knots was putting the hydraulic fittings on to the PS valve! You have to go in an order or you cannot get the wrench on the next fitting. Also never start a hyd fitting with anything but your fingers. You should be able to turn it several times before reaching for the wrench. I ended up going with three rubber hoses instead of making hard lines. One good reference for making the hoses lengths were the two ram short hoses. I put a union between them and then used that for my new hose template. As it turned out that was the exact length I needed for two of the new lines and the long ram hose, about 10 inches, was the exact length for the pressure line to the PS valve. I was able to re-bend the OEM lines under the tunnel cover so that one of them went to the lift valve and the other with a union and short hose connected to the PS valve. One big difference I noted AFTER I got home with the new hoses is that the old hoses had about a 1 1/2 inch metal crimp ring and the new ones had about 2 inches. That made a huge difference in their bendablity and fitting them into tight places. It doesn't seem like it would but boy it did. If I can answer any question for anybody feel free to ask me. And thanks for the help everyone offered me during many moments of panic and doubt.
Rudy:beerchug:

Awesome news Rudy! I figured you was going to learn a ton on his project!

I totally agree!

One last question
 

After getting everything back together and taking it for a "High Speed" spin I noticed that it was a little darty. Does anyone know what the toe in should be? Right now I have it set to both wheels straight ahead and it isn't an issue when in the grass but it should track better on the road. Thanks

I always use 1/8" closer in the front than the rear,works for me.

Glad you got it going Rudy! I knew you would get it all figured out.

Final pictures of the conversion
 

Here are a couple of pics from the final reassembly. Not too much to see but the ram. As you can see from the PS valve the lines have to be put on in an order so that you can get to the last nut without interference.

I agree! Thank for the pics.

Parts question
 

Now that the heavy work is done I need to replace the two ball joints on the PS ram. Does anyone know the size rather than the part number? I looked them up on the CC parts site but they just give the number and not the size and thread count. Thanks

You could take one off and compare it to a bolt.
Most times heim joints are a fine thread, but not always.
A quick visual comparison would tell you if it is a fine thread.
I'm not familar with your Cyl. and some are L.handed, again a visual would tell that.