Unable to pull, the steering wheel off the shaft.
 

Hi again guys. I'm having another tough time with my old CC 125, and I need to get this thing going again, cuz I have a few mounds of dirt that need to be moved with my nice little Danco loader. I started getting into the steering problems, and of course rebuilding the steering box requires the removal of the steering wheel in order to drop the steering box and shaft etc out through the bottom of the frame. Getting the big nut off the steering wheel shaft was a two day affair...using a lot of PB Blaster, some hammering, and a very long breaker bar on the socket wench. That was just the beginning. I tried several styles and sizes of three hook gear pullers...to no avail. I applied a torch....I only succeeded in burning up the steering wheel plastic hub center. I didn't care...I want to replace the wheel with a larger one...If I can find one to fit. I have now stripped away the charred remains of the plastic hub center, exposing the steel wheel hub. It is actually still quite useable as it is. However, all of the heating, hammering, and torquing down on the various standard three-hook gear pullers has failed to budge the frozen wheel from the steering shaft spline. Does anyone have a magic thought on wheel removal that may make my tomorrow, a bit better than today was.
Thanks in advance to all.....you guys are always a great source of help.
Jim

See if this might help. Has worked for me quite well.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...steering+wheel

I used the "jbrewer" technique at the end of that thread on 3 wheels, 100% success.

Thanks jbrewer !!

I swing a 3 pound hammer!! Well I always use that hammer!!

Hey!
 

Glad it helped.... it was just a variation on an existing theme (solvent+impact+pressure)

I think the upward knee pressure/patience with PBblaster/impact will loosen the Washington Monument with enough time.

Make sure to back the nut off until the shaft end is protected, and use some sort of flat steel in between the nut and the hammer face, and you're good!

My "O" had sat in the N. Carolina rain for 8 years... and it STILL came off.

John

I have had the same luck getting a steering wheel off a 125. I ended up splitting the top of the shaft, ruining the threads. I called it quits after that. Hope you have better luck than I did.

All are very good suggestions.
 

These ideas give me some more good tricks to try today.
Overnight, I left the puller on the wheel hub, torqued down as hard as I could get it, and let the thing soak in PB Blaster throughout the night.
I am hoping that the PB Blaster and the puller tension might soften things up.
We shall see! More news to follow soon.
jim

If you're not worried about saving the existing wheel, use a hacksaw or abrasive wheel to cut the collar in a direction parallel to the shaft. You won't need to cut it all the way through. Just enough to seriously weaken the collar and give it room to move. Then heat it up with the torch and it should open up and come off. Use an impact wrench with the 3 jaw puller if you have to at this point.

I also made a U bracket out of 1/2" steel plate that allowed me to get a better grip with the 3 jaw puller for those that I wanted to save.

I've pulled 8 or 9 steering wheels and I'm always amazed at how well they stick to the shaft.

The @#%*& Wheel is still firmly stuck on the shaht.
 

:>) Good morning...and here's the latest in this nagging ongoing battle with the Cub 125 wheel.
Yesterday was another day of messy and frustrating labor. I tried propping the wheel on my knees while hammering......all that did was make a lot of noise and left me with sore legs. :>) I tried the three jaw puller again...and again....even ground the jaws a bit to give a better grip on the wheel hub....and in desperation I played the torch on it while the 3-jaw was under a lot of tension, thinking that it may help the thing budge.. Actually, all that was accomplished was that my little Bernz-o-matic hand torch developed some kind of a back leak, which threw a huge ball of propane fire at me, and I now have no hair on my right arm. Hmmm, there must be a better way!
I am considering the suggestion to cut open the wheel hub with an abrasive wheel, thus destroying the wheel....but since I had peeled away all the molded plastic from the wheel hub, I see that it is still a perfectly useable wheel. A nice steel hub with welded steel radial arms on it, and now I would kinda like to save it...if I can. Placing that cutting idea on hold for a while, and having run out of alternate ideas, the project is on hold until I can become re-energized, and develop some confidence in yet another thing to try. I appreciate all the contributors to this thing...I sure have learned a few more tricks. Maybe more to come????
Thank you all, and Bye for now.
Jim

One good trick is patience....which I'm generally short of.


:bash2:


PBblaster takes repeated applications on stubborn stuff. Coupled with some good raps to loosen the interface between hub and shaft, it WILL work eventually.

John

I have never removed a cub steering wheel, but I have removed some stubborn throwout bearings on larger tractors and I have to say that the air hammer may surprise you. An old mechanic came over to help me while removing a throwout bearing and said "watch this." Ten seconds later, the thing was off. You may want to consider the possible damage to your steering box if you go this direction.

Air Hammer???
 

Are you referring to an air impact wrench? At this stage of the game, I am expecting to replace the steering box anyway...or at least do a rebuilt on it...so please do explain further the application you mentioned. I very much would like to try it, but I guess I need some specific instructions on what the tool is, and how to apply it.
Thanks very much for giving me another bit of inspiration to deal with this vexing problem
jim

Every one gave you good advice so far. By now the threads are probaly gone buy if not get a 5/8 i I think 18 tread nut and bolt. Remove the steering wheel bolt. Put on the 5/8 bolt and nut. Run the bolt to the top of the shaft and the nut should hold both steering wheel and 5/8. Just snug the bolt with a wrench. Sit on the seat and put your knees on the back side of the steering wheel with force pushing the wheel to you. Get a BFH and hit away on the bolt. I have never failed this way.
But if the shaft is junk by now just cut it in half above the tower.
Good luck keep us posted.

in response to mmuzulo
 

The shaft threads remain in very good condition. I do know enough to protect the threads with the nut before hammering away....which I have done repeatedly as per my previous posts....and I also employed an intermediate piece of steel to hammer on to further protect the nut and threads.
I Merely ended up with very sore legs.
Support for the shaft would have to be infinitely more robust than flesh can provide, and so far, I have been unable to invent such a rigid support.
This is not being an easy removal that would allow such a cushioned support as legs. Legs have the effect of significantly softening the hammer blows.
But I thank you for the suggestions.
jim

You are not trying to support the shaft with flesh!!

You are just trying to change its position.

There is some up and down motion in the shaft (slop).

You are just trying to get the steering wheel AND shaft in the UP position before you hit it.

If you hit the shaft while both the shaft and wheel are in the up position, hopefully the shaft will go down, and the wheel stays up.

It is kind of like driving a nail through a board.

If you start in the down position, the impact force just transfers to the frame.

If that's the case just cut the shaft and wheel off and buy a steering column because the lower half has to be junk by now. And since it's on a loader it's probably worn out anyway. When you hit the top down you put a lot of stress on the aluminum lower section.

Jim-

Have you tried the bolt and nut method? I have a 4" or 5" long 5/8-18 grade eight bolt and regular size grade eight nut (not the thin nut like a jam nut). Just screw the nut down until it bottoms on the steering wheel then back it off 1/16" to 1/8". While holding the nut screw the bolt in until it bottoms on the shaft and snug it up a tad...not too much, just snug. With upward pressure on the steering wheel (knees) tap/hit the bolt. It may take a few tries but I've never been let down. Keep an eye on the gap you provided. You might need to back it off once but the gap I mentioned usually does the trick. When the gap disappears the steering wheel has moved. I have heard of steering wheels that were just too rusted even for this method but I haven't come across one yet.

Good luck.

Soak it, Soak it, and Soak it some more, with PB blaster. I had a wheel on a 782 that wouldn't come off. I worked on that wheel for 2 weeks soaked it 3 times a day pulled on it, beat on it, yelled at it, swore at it, just about everything you could do for 2 weeks. I spent about 3 hours on it one night and had myself at wits end, gave up and said I'll cut it off in the morning I'm done with it. I went down the next morning got out the saw set everything up, and thought I'm gonna yank on this thing one more time. Standing beside the tractor I grabbed the wheel and pulled as hard as I could. That wheel came off so easy I almost went a** over tin cup. Landed on the work bench, and thought ot myself what just happened :biggrin2:. It came off so easy I couldn't believe it. The PB finally got there :biggrin2: :beerchug:. Mike and I did one on an old 70 a couple months ago that we thought was gonna be a pain, it had been outside for who knows how long. I grab it and it popped right off with out even trying :biggrin2:. You just ever know!!!

Yeah, I couldn't believe that! You never know!:biggrin2:

OK guys...been there, done that, etc
 

Hey guys, make no mistake about it...I fully understand the principle of supporting the wheel on my legs while it, and the column, are in the up position...and of course with the lower end of the steering box completely disconnected from the frame. However, try as I may, pounding the hell out of it with a 2 or 3 pound hammer.....it remains in place.
I intend to continue soaking it with Blaster, and hitting it, and cursing at it...until such time as succeed, or feel it necessary to grind away the wheel hub, and scrapping it,...along with whatever else needs to be replaced.
Still wailing away at it.....LOL....for now.
Thanks to all once again.
Jim

This post is where I saw someone else using an air hammer.
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...steering+wheel

An air hammer is an air powered hammer (I'm sure you gathered that :beerchug:). It can be versatile because it has different attachments; i.e., a drift, a pointed chisel, a flat chisel, etc.

Heating was mentioned,
A propane torch is a poor excuse of a heat source as all it does is heat up both the shaft as well as the hub, because it is a slow heating process.
A acetylene/oxy setup heats quickly the hub, allowing it to expand several thousands and with the pressure of the puller already applying force, it just easily comes apart, before the shaft gets a chance to heat up.
You need to quickly heat one side of the hub, in one spot, not all around because all around will cause the the shaft to heat up also.
Maybe you have a friend with a act/oxy setup???
The other way as mentioned it slitting the hub
I have skinned many a cat in my years, using a quick heat/expansion method.
I wish you the best of luck!

O/A- when all else fails, use the Red Wrench!

air hammer....aha..gotcha!
 

Oh yes, there is an air hammer, and a number of attachments, in the kit that came along with the air impact driver. I used a center drill to locate and develop a nice center divot in the shaft for the purpose of centering and holding the 3 jaw puller in place. I suppose I could use the air hammer and its rather pointed attachment into that center divot in the hopes of developing a lot more vibration....possibly allowing the Blaster to get into the inner spline.
Oh well, tomorrow will be yet another day of frustrating and dirty work on the Cub Cadet....heh heh.... 8>)
Oh I am just having soooo much fun with this toy tractor. :>(
not !!!
Jim

Steering Wheel
 

I just removed three steering wheels on two 100's & a 70 using Brian Millers method with a automotive steering wheel remover & a bearing separator tool...Worked well.

Good Luck,Bruce

good tip to use an oxy-acetylene torch on it.
 

Yes, the oxy/acetylene torch to heat one side sounds like another very good idea.....however, I sold my gas torch rig and now I have just a MIG welder....probably not so good for general heating like this. LOL.
I wonder if I would get better results by using a MAPP gas torch on it? I do have some of that gas lying around here, and it is a much hotter burning gas than propane.
I am now into the soak...soak...soak it in Blaster method. I'll let that run for a few more days while I try to take a break from the frustration.
I think my next project on this tractor will be to re-do the coupling on the drive shaft. I believe it HAD a sort of shear pin...which is now gone, and now the coupling is only secured onto the shaft by one set bolt. That'll be another tight little area that will probably give me more aggravation.
Sometimes I wonder why I do these things. Lately I am wondering why much more than usual...heh heh. I believe it's like knocking my head against a wall.....I know it'll feel better when I stop!!!!
Bye for now.
Jim

Matt G. has posted on this topic several times in the past. Here is a picture of what he suggested. I have never had to use this yet, as I have always been able to pull them off without any assistance, but others have stated in the past that it is very effective. Hope it helps and thanks Matt G.!

Cub Cadet 123

That looks very effective !

By the way, use the occasional rap (impact, not doggerel) in between the PB soaking...

John

I like that new puller arrangement.
 

Maybe thats my project for the day. I'll bore a steering column size hole in a strong 2X4, then split the 2X4 in two, lengthwise. Drill bolt holes to hold the two half's tightly together on the column. Drill holes for the harmonic balance puller bolts and put nice big fender washers under the 2X4 as I assemble it all onto the column. That plan would eliminate the problems with the 3 jaw set-up, as it was pulling off the wheel hub time after time.
I could leave the set-up under tension and soak it with Blaster several times each day until it finally pops off. The application of the air hammer every once in a while would help too. And maybe the MAPP gas torch too!
And I was wondering what I may do with myself to relax on this day. 8>)
LOL
Thanks again for the tips .
Jim

Use a piece of oak as Matt did on it.Doug Fir is soft and it will get drawn into the wheel.

Jim,
I know this is giving you fits!
The way i was told and removed one on the 147 was this way.
Remove the bolts holding the steering box to the frame. Let the steering box move down untill the base of the steering wheel rests on the dash.
Put the steering wheel nut back on fhush with the end of the shaft or a little above to try to avoid thread damage.
Use a brass rod or some thing to beat on against the nut. So your not hitting directly on the nut. get your 3 lb hammer and in several good hard whacks it should be off.
I think the weight of the steering assembly helps this come apart.
(this may have been mentioned and I may have missed it)
Yes it sounds like a lot of work but these splines generally do not just fall off.
Regards,
Chris

thanks for more good tips...
 

You guys are being so very patient, and helpful with me and my latest issue with this cantankerous old 125...I cant thank you enough.
In response.....
Using the oak is a very good idea.....I think I can tear a piece off my wife's antique china cabinet. I've always disliked that big hulk of a box......
heh heh. I'm just kidding.

In response.....
I already had disconnected the steering box from the frame before starting on this wheel spline issue....so it is just hanging freely under the frame....but as for resting the wheel on the dash and hammering on the splined shaft. Well,... The dash is just a piece molded fiberglass, or plastic , so it would fail immediately under any hammering.
Therein lies the problem of supporting the wheel while hammering. I tried resting it on my legs, but the flesh tends to significantly soften the blow to the shaft, and my legs really didn't like that sort of abuse for very long.
It needs to be rigidly supported to withstand the kind of hammering it will take to get this beast free.
Another thought comes to mind...but it isn't easy either. I could get someone over to torch cut the steering shaft off at the steering box...then I could pull the column up and out of the machine. Once it is out in the open, I could set it into a massive vise for some serious pounding.
But the only thing that does is maybe save the wheel, which I originally didn't like anyway. I feel the machine needs a larger diameter wheel, especially using the loader, which puts a much larger load on the steering. But a replacement wheel would have to be on a much taller column. The existing wheel is a deep dish, and a big flat wheel (which I would want) would be a knuckle buster in this narrow of a frame.
The problems seem to go on and on, but it does manage to fill up my time.
more news to follow when it becomes interesting.
Thanks again to everyone.
Jim

hey capt jim, i've read all the posts on this thread and haven't seen anyone mention this culprit. after you purchased your tractor, have you ever changed the steering wheel? if not, perhaps the po had welded the steering wheel to the shaft. just a thought.
rick

I think it would be pretty obvious if somebody welded the steering wheel on.

Puller
 

Matt's puller idea is an excellent one. Once you get tension on it a good rap on the puller head would be good too. Impacts are your friends when removing stuck items.

How're your knees holding out? :-)


John

knees are holding out just fine today.
 

I am taking a break from this drudgery and I am allowing Blaster to do the hard work for a while.
I checked very closely....the wheel is NOT welded onto the shaft...although that was seeming to be a strong possibility.... I was thinking it just may be welded, since it hasn't budged at all after days of pounding on it.
Over a beer, I'm thinking more of ending the torture by using an abrasive wheel and just cutting the shaft...right there under the wheel hub. I can pull the wheel up high and get the grinder on it. Access is pretty good there right now. I am figuring that I'll have to replace the steering box etc, anyway, and I just may be able to save the wheel and get the shaft spline out of the wheel with it on my huge anvil/vise.
Oh well.....another beer, and think more about it until tomorrow.
Jim

Try Matt's puller first...

After all, you've come this far, what's another hour or so :-)

You'll get it!

John

PS: I was working on my hot rod project last year trying to get a part of the steering linkage apart from the tie rod. I had a ball joint separator under BIG tension trying to loosen a taper fit with 30 yrs of rust and grime on it. When that thing let go it was with a very VERY LOUD *bang*. My wife came out to see what had gone south, but after getting my heart rate under control I was smiling.

It's amazing how tight two pieces of metal can join together. Particularly when you don't want them to.

John

Jim,
Not the expert here. Are you sure that on a 125 there is not a steel plate under the plastic dash? I don't have a 125 (yet:)) but most of the ones I do have use a metal frame to support the dash. If its there, then a couple pieces of steel between the wheel and the frame to carry the load might work.
I think your the one that gets the patience of the year award! I would have cut something off three pages ago:)
Regards
Chris

I have used the airhammer method,after 40 or so steering wheels removed,only one did not come off.Tommorrow I have to remove the one on the 124 to replace the column bearing,soaking it for the last few days.I don't remove the column bolts though.On stubborn ones I loosen the cam follower as far out as I can get it then I remove the cap on the bottom of the column and drive the shaft through.

Be careful hammering on any bolts as it can damage your parts of your steering column---ie. race bearing, unless you are planning on replacing parts.

Cub Cadet 123

You've got it backwards. Save the steering box/shaft, forget the wheel. That's a serviceable gearbox that most of the time can be refurbished back to like new. Except for a few models, a replacement wheel can be found relatively cheap.

Cut all the support arms away and toss aside. Now you can get at the hub to make a cut running parallel to the shaft. Ease into it so you don't gouge too badly into the shaft. Work a screwdriver or flat punch into the cut to see if you can open it up. If not, make another cut on the opposite side, eventually the grip will release and you can knock the pieces away.