Tales of O- My repair thread-1963 "O"
 

Well , I'm committed to this project, so rather than cluttering up the index, I'll create one thread to bore you with the adventures with my scruffy old "O". My goal is to get it serviceable first, then decide how to make it look presentable.

I got "Yellow Fever" some time ago, and resisted the urge until my MTD/Bolens died this fall which justified searching out my first Cub. I got a 123 to pick up the lawn duties , a 106 with a bunch of attachments, and a very scruffy "O" which was advertised in CL as "Woods fresh" :biggrin2: (S/N 59179)

"Woods Fresh" as it turns out, meant "It has sat out in the rain in the woods of rural NC for at least 8 or 9 years since I've had it... and it wasn't running when it got here" It came complete with rust and 2 front flats, "custom" paint and "International" script of a big truck and 2 broken Hella driving lights that stuck out like jug ears.

The first order of business was a bath and some tires that at least held air so I could roll it around the yard....and removing the driving lights.

assessment....
 

It looks complete, along with fossilized fuel throughout the fuel sediment bowl and valve and carb. Off that comes for a rebuild and a trip into the carb cleaner . The float was intact and the carb itself not too terrible. I had to make a bushing for the throttle shaft out of some aluminum bar as it had wallowed out the carb housing. By the way, the "standard" bushing referenced for general use in Cubs doesn't fit the Carter N, the OD of it being ~.400" and ID ~ .215.

The carb cleaned up well and no drama happened :-). I did make some rubber ferrules for the line out of vacuum hose. Hooray, no leaks. I reused the original copper line and brass fittings. Some steel wool rubbing removed 2 layers of old paint from the oil bath cleaner

This is going to be a good "watch" thread! :D

wow its getting there

Next on the agenda....
 

The engine turned over by hand, so I ordered a head gasket and removed the cylinder head to see what years of sitting had done to the engine. Fortunately, the answer was "not much" other than rusting the head bolts to the point that one (the one near the exhaust port) snapped off when I tried to remove it. I drilled it out , and retapped. It held the 30 ft-lbs but I may redrill it and put a helicoil in the next time I remove the head.

I discovered why it was probably parked... it had a major head gasket leak and had been run long enough that way to begin to etch the head. It took about 30 min of surfacing it on my flat plate (thanks Matt for the idea) before it was back to being flat. I also noted someone had installed a replacement plug thread insert...I suppose it was easy to strip them out and whoever did this did a good job (though the threaded insert seems VERY deep...and has about 2x the treads that the plug can use. The plug sits WAY up in the threads.

The piston is unmarked and the bore actually looks pretty good! A mud dauber had completely filled the exhaust port... got that mess cleaned up along with general cleaning of the cylinder fins once the tins were off.
Cleaned cleaned......

and more cleaning...
 

I think there was about a half pound of dirt/dust/rust/pebbles in the fins and tins , which I cleaned out ... I put everything back together with some new hardware . The snapped off bolt turned a 20 min job into a 5 hour one, but after all this thing is almost 50 years old and hasn't been treated kindly (until now).

The sediment filter was full of ...sediment and molasses . More cleaning... and back together it goes. The tank was cleaned but it was surprisingly nice inside., I suspect most of the gas leaked out and the top was screwed on, which kept it decent.. No rust either!

The original muffler was ... mostly gone. Tractor Supply had a direct replacement. $7.95, and a gasket for the sediment bowl. Cool!

Back together it goes...

So....today.
 

IT RUNS!

It fires up and runs smoothly. I had changed the oil earlier (which was black gunk mixed with water) , and while there was a burst of smoke (and dust, from inside the tins) it really runs! The throttle cable is frozen, so there's no adjustment other than the fingertip version (I can feel the governor working when I do this) but I was AMAZED that it came to life. The local auto store had a suitable V-belt (thanks Carquest!) . It's hard to tell, but in the last photo below, the engine is running (the belt is blurred from the motion)

The vacuum line ferrules held with no leaks. and although it doesn't look very pretty at this point, it's cleaner and running quite well. I turned it off, let it cool and restarted and each time it fired back up easily.

I can't get the clutch to disengage... I put the clutch in , I can see the throw out bearing pushing and releasing pressure on the disk, but both shafts stay turning, so I suspect something is rusted into place. I'll have to read up on this. The clutch linkage was stiff and unmoving but repeated application of PB and oil over the past week or so has it moving smoothly. I'll clean and lube everything under there when I figure out what to attack next and take all the linkage out.

Having come this far, I put the shifter in 1st gear, and pushed the starter (I had previously cleaned all connections (battery, starter/gen, etc) , including the ground to the starter/gen. The voltage regulator is flaking rust on the outside but appears to still function) and it caught immediately and I putted around the back yard at idle in 1st gear.

So...after some leisurely time spent with this thing over the past couple weeks, it actually runs.... in who knows how many years...at least "8 or 10" years sitting rusting away in the woods.

Man I love fixing old stuff (though I don't know what I'm doing half the time).

Now to read up on the clutch and see how to fix that, then change the engine oil again, drop the rear end cover to see what viscosity syrup is in there (if any) and see why the brake isn't working and clean up some wiring.

John

Also...
 

I need to figure out what to ultimately do with the finish... repaint to original or just prevent any more rust, replace the seat, and leave it a "rat rod". What do you think? I've got PLENTY of time to consider that, as I go thru the rest...

Congrats on getting it running. Don't forget to let the motor run about 20 minutes or so at 1/2 and 3/4 throttle then let it completely cool off and retorque the head.

Take a paint scraper and try to get it in between the clutch disc and pressure plates. They should pop loose with a little effort.

--with the clutch pedal pressed.

I have had the clutch pack stick from sitting for years on old dirbike/quads. I would just run them around with the clutch in and they would eventually break free. Now a tractor would be different being geared so low but maybe put it in 3rd and drive it around with the clutch pedal in. Look for hills or something to really work it. I havent drove a gear cub. If the brakes are attached to the clutch then you might have to disengage the brake part so you could drive it without riding the brakes. If the brake is separate from the clutch maybe hit the brakes while the clutch is in and driving it to help.

I got side tracked with the clutch thing and forgot to say congrats! Looking better and glad its going now. I kinda like the red.:D You are moving right along. How did you do all that in 2hrs, lol.

....with the engine off! :-)

I think the saying is

"My Bad!!" :biggrin2:

:biggrin2:

Congrats on getting the "O" running and as for the color you do what you want but yellow and white are my favorite colors, just sayin.

Glad you got the O going! This is a great thread. :beerchug:

Interesting thread
 

Your descriptions and photos make for a good project to follow. I enjoy hearing about the smallest details (isn't that where the devil resides?) - even about how a 20 minute job can turn into a five hour job! (somehow comforting to know that it happens to others too) Looking forward to your updates

jbrewer,
Great thread, Your doing a great job bringing back a tractor that just wont quit.
A bet it was very pleased to have a new owner that cared enough to spend that extra time to get it running.
I have had the clutch plates stick together after washing the tractor and then it sets for weeks.
I thin screw drive can be used to carefully break them free.
Regards,
Chris

Thanks for the kind words. I'm learning by doing, so please forgive the dumb questions.

Here's one more.. :-)

I can press on the clutch and see the disk/pulley assembly separate from the front pressure plate. Both shafts continue to spin however.

The photo below shows the clutch in the pedal down (disengaged...in theory) position.

If I understand correctly via this diagram:



The disk is bonded to the pulley, so since it's separating from the front plate, should not the drive train disengage?

Thanks for your patience

John

Got it!
 

Thanks guys... with your hints and staring at the diagram it's clear (now) that both front and rear plates need to be free for the clutch to disengage. The rear one was on there tight, but some tapping with the putty knife popped it free.

Now I have first gear, almost reverse and no 2nd and 3rd. Feels like the shifter forks are not quite moving far enough to engage the missing gears. Next installment I'll pull the shifter plate and see what's broken...missing...who knows?

Onward to the next problem!

John

John great thread! Looking forward to your updates!

Houston , we have a problem!
 

Well, I found out why this thing was parked.... a severe case of tooth decay in the transmission. Im not sure what that gear is on the input shaft...reverse I think.

it also looks like someone has hamfisted the shifter forks, but that I have a spare for. A close look with a flashlight indicates that the rest of the gears look OK. Can someone recognize what this gear is that is toothless...is it indeed reverse?

Secondly, can a normal human repair such a thing? Finally, does anyone have parts for an "O" tranny...specifically this gear highlighted with the red donut? I'm too far down the road to abandon this thing as the previous owner did.

Thanks!
John

John, place a wanted ad, or check with our sponsors. :beerchug:

Scored !
 

Found a used set quite reasonably.

I've been studying the diagram in the manual... it's kind of hard to visualize, but I think that gear set is 1/R ...and it's reverse that's lurched.

I guess this will give me the opportunity to fix the band brake while I've got the darned thing torn apart... and undoubtedly other stuff.....

Mission creep...it's what happens when you remove the first screw...

John

If it's just one or two teeth that are broken, I have seen gears repaired by filing smooth the broken tooth, then drilling and tapping two holes, side by side (not touching), where the tooth was, then filling the holes with machine screws. You then file the screws to the profile of the missing teeth. I have seen lathe gears repaired this way. Might be worth a try, but I think those gears are probably available from some of our sponsors.

thanks
 

Thanks for the tips. I found an ad on Epay for all the guts from the trans in decent (ie: With all teeth) condition. Of course this means major disassembly , but it was just a matter of time.

Man, is that oil/water sludge stinky... I should probably start it draining. I'm glad to see that at least there was still some lube in there to keep things from rusting. It looks like the only rust came from the bottom of the shifter plate. The shift boot kept water from draining into the case.

I'll have to go look thru here to find any photo-essays about transmission overhauls. My guess is there's few, since the units themselves are generally bulletproof and don't require overhaul often.

Mine apparently , was owned by the "if it don't fit, force it!" type.....

John if you get over my way I'll give you a working rear end. Come get it and it's yours. The shifter is off of it. It was given to my by Eric and I have no need for it. It's a 61 rear end but I can't recall the serial number right now.

A little more work
 

I had some time after Christmas shopping (aaiiiiiiiihhhhhh!) today to spend with the "O". Many thanks to Duke for the offer of the trans, which I will gratefully accept, and to Allen for haulage. I look forward to meeting you after Christmas and swapping out the transmission. I do plan on fixing the old one if I can, so I'll be either able to give it back to you Duke , or pass it on to another as you so kindly did.

Todays issue was a S/G that sounded like there's a handful of gravel in it. It charged (weakly) but the bearings clearly have "issues". I had scored a spare S/G for my 123 off of ebay for a very reasonable price. I looked up the data in the reference section and found that the generators for the "O"'s were different, but I couldn't tell in which way.

Given that the only real difference I can see is the HP of the motor it works with , I swapped in the replacement and it works like a champ. I also replaced the ground wire which had consisted of a piece of solid #10 wrapped around the 1/4-20 bolt at the battery end, and the S/G stud at the frame end. I crimped and soldered on lugs to some new #6 stranded wire, and it's probably good to go for another 50 yrs. I'll need to route and clamp it in some neater way, but it's sure making better connection now. The drive pulley is slightly larger in the replacement, which makes sense since it was designed to turn over a larger displacement motor, I suppose.

The voltage regulator looks like it's about to crumble into various oxides but it still works. I'll pull it off, clean and paint it and redo the connections next.

All gravel sounds are gone, and along with its new muffler , timing, carb overhaul and tune and points setting, it pops along very nicely now.

John

The S/G that's correct for an Original has the little oil cups for the bearings. That and the pulley size are the only major differences I can think of.

Hi Matt,

The reference in the forum shows 2 types for an "O" if I read it right. I don't know the difference and the Delco tag has been removed from mine. Given that it's got the typical (for this tractor) 3 layers of paint, I suspect it's the one it came with. No oil cups, but I see the boss's where it looks like they might have been placed. Mine is a 1963 so perhaps earlier O's came with them, and later , not.

Would be neat to know the differences between the various evolutions. More Cub minutia .

John

John,
Nice read as you work through your new "O" issues.
Great that you found a transmission!
Hope you holidays are great!
Great pictures!
Regards,
Chris

Chris said it all!

John, I don't need the tranmission back. You could pull your reduction housing off and put it on this one and keep your serial number with your 63.

Well, I've got the S/G somewhat apart. The pulley end came apart easily (though the Woodruff key took some PB, the brass hammer and overnight soaking) , the brush end is different. Should the end cap at the brush end slide off, or do I need to remove that "freeze plug" looking thing and remove something to get that end cover to slide off the armature shaft?

I can see the brushes in there. The bearing on the pulley end feels like a washboard....

Thanks for any hints...

Keep in mind this thing WORKED, it just sounded like marbles in a tin can!

That's some rust in a bad place to have rust! No wonder it was making noise! Sweeet pics too!

Wow, that's a lot of rust! You'll get it straightened out, John!

Well...
 

If I can figure out how to remove the armature end of the housing, I'll be well on my way. Bearings are on order, I can turn the armature on my small lathe I think... but, I need to find out why the end casting at the armature end won't release from the end of the shaft.

The delco manual I found has a drawing, but in the instruction section says "disassemble the generator".

Hmmm....


:bash:

If I stare at the cross sectional drawing long enough I'll get there. The brush holders are still riveted in, so I guess it's all original. Darned cheap Delco units, can't even get 50 years of service out of 'em :-)

John

Well, it's been a while... life, cold weather, cold virus, and sloth has gotten in the way.

Anyway, back to it. Here's the armature after a bit of clean up , and the housing before changing bearings and brushes or cleaning.

Hopefully I'll get it back together today ... we'll see how it goes!
John

You've been busy, John! Thanks for the pics! :beerchug:

Back together.
 

Well, I got the brushes in and the thing back together. It's cleaner than it was though it's far from perfect. All the loose rust and gunk is gone.

You can see by the 2nd photo that the new (sealed) bearings are in a bit better shape than the originals

The 3rd photo was a puzzler. This is a bearing cover that screws into one of the end housings. There's a paper gasket that I fabricated to replace the 50 year old original. The bearing cover has a grooved area that sure looks like an o-ring or felt fit in there. There was no sign of one, but that recess has to be there for a reason. I found an oring that fit perfectly and kind of seals between the spacer and the shaft. Dunno what actually went in there but there had to be something to keep the grease from slinging into the armature area from the bearing recess.

Now stripping the outside for paint and we'll give it a smoke test.

John