clutch removal
 

Need help guys

I am trying to take out the spiral pin at the rear of the drive shaft. I sprayed it with penetrating oil. I have tried removing it out from the top (creeper holes) and bottom but it will not move. Any ideas? I'm going to get a longer punch and a bigger hammer and see if I can use more force or can I damage something! Can this pin be drilled out?

If I remove the engine on a 122, can you take the clutch apart while its still in the frame? I can't get the spiral pin out. I'm using a 4 lb sledge hammer and a 18 in punch and a lot of WD40.

Fer100: WD40?? Since WD stands for Water Dispersal, is your Cub Cadet under water?? If not, why are you dispersing water????

Myron B

I've tried penetrating oil. I figured I would try WD40. I've been trying to get this out for a week.

MBounds, is correct. If you or anyone else out there thinks that wd40 will penetrate rust or lube something up, then... Lord help you. There are several GOOD rust penetrators out there, PB Blaster is the first one that comes to mind (sorry but my boss thinks that wd40m is a lubricant/penetrate (makes me crazy)).

Then, get yourself a SPIRAL PIN PUNCH, it will be the same diameter as the spiral pin, and has a small protrusion in the center.

Please understand that I'm not telling you these things in such a brutal manor because it is "the right way" of doing this job, I'm telling you this because it will make your life SO much easier and it really is one of the small things that make the difference between enjoying what you are doing and hating to go work on that &@mn thing.

Use heat (propane torch etc) and try to keep the heat located on the roll pin, drilling it out will be futile unless you use a carbide drill with very high speed as the spirol pin is hardened

Sears have a nice set of roll pin punches that works good on removing pins in the driveshaft.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...eyword=punches

Odds are you will ruin the imput shaft seal when you use heat. I would use a low rpm drill speed with a carbide drill bit or any style drill bit....too easy to work harden the pin.

You can, but it would make more sense to remove it so you can replace the driveshaft itself, as it will most likely be worn out.

Merk the problem with drilling the pin is it is hardened to begin with, carbide is extremely brittle and the layered pin combined with the hole in the center is just to much to be snapping carbide drills= $$$ you could buy a shaft by the time you purchased a couple of carbide drills. I use carbide a good bit, in applications like this ( and most anything carbide) high speed and low feed, I'm not arguing with you, I guess we just go at getting something done in a different way which is great to share info on a forum like this.

If your worried about damaging the seal you can make a heat stop a cold water rag will do great to stop the heat from transferring through the shaft. I think with a propane torch you could direct the heat right to the pin only ( it does not have to be red hot to begin with) if heating only the pin does not work then you need to put the cold water soaked rag or rags to stop the heat and reall heat the pin up.

Clint,
I have 30 plus years as a machinist. I've been using carbide tools for 20 to 25 years. Most of the material I machine is 300-400 series stainless steel, 1015-1144-1137-4140 steel.

My current job is setting up new parts-machines and debugging CNC programs and tooling. 95 to 98 percent of the tools I use are carbide.

I've been down the road with hi speed-low feed rate. Hi speed will make more heat than low speed will. Heat is what breaks down tooling (carbide drills example) and make the the part you are trying to machine harder to machine.

There are different ways to do a task. I'm not here to argue which way is is better. I'm just trying to pass on what I've learn from doing.

High speed, low feed...

Kinda sounds like a conversation in a beer commercial.

THANKS for all the imput guys. First off the only reason I used WD 40 was because I ran out of pentrating oil Sorry won't do that again. After work today I went out and got some P B Blaster pentrating oil. Will soak the area for awhile like the directions say. If that don't work. I'll Try the propane torch on the Pin. I have been using a 3/16 Punch 12 Inches long on the pin. I got this after I wacked my fingers acouple of times with the Hammer using a 6inche punch. I went to sears and look at the punch set but the set they had was only 6 inches long. The problem is all you guys have a shop set up already. I have very few tools and as I need them I go out and have to buy them. The last time I work on any thing like this was in 1974 on my pontiac Tempest with my father before I went into the Service. Always lived in a aptment so never had room for tools. Again thanks for the help excuse me on my mistakes but I'am just learning guys.

But low and slow ( like BBQ ) does the job with a more harmonious outcome.
:beerchug:

fer100,

You don't need to apologize. We are going to get you through this. Actually WD 40 sells itself as:

Known as "the can with thousands of uses," WD-40 protects metal from rust and corrosion, penetrates stuck parts, displaces moisture, and lubricates just about anything. WD-40 is also great when it comes to cleaning grease, grime, and other marks from most surfaces. http://www.wd40.com/


Now where is Myrons definition. Not that he is wrong. But he could stand to lighten up a bit.


So hang in there!

I understand, I've been trying to get this pin out for a week. It's been fustrating. I so want to get some C4 shape charge and get it to move but the way my luck is going the tractor would end up in the next county, HA HA. I so want to get this fix so I can use it. I put a Hydraulic pump on it, and I want to try my plow out. The throw out bearing is broken in half and so the clutch won't work. I just don't want to force it into gear.

Merk I agree with you on passing on what you know, and I was just doing the same. I have also worked with a lot of stainless, and it will work harden on low feed, even with carbide, if you get in it and take a good DOC with high feed it cuts like butter, if you do what I suggested low feed high speed it will work harden and you will have a job.

However my experience with a hardened pin is that it's already hard so you need to overcome this with the high speed, and low feed let the carbide do the work, you don't have to worry about anything but it catching and breaking. I'm always willing to try another way if I find something that works.

I love working with stainless, most grades make a perfect finish, and holds up much better to corrosion which I despise. I work with more Titanium than anything, it's a very good material to work with, very similar to stainless in the 6AL-4V, I have also worked with several other exotic metals, plastics etc etc.

Glad to have your knowledge and experience "on hand" so to speak, there is a lot of info on the net, however hands on knowledge can't be beat.

OK fer100

Often times you will find roll pins that haven't been out in awhile will rust and swell to the point that they just won't budge. Sometimes they are so bad that the ends that stick out past the hole they go through will spread to the point that the right size punch seems to want to go inside of the outer spiral, only to compound the problem. So as a last resort sometimes, I will cut the pin off flush with whatever it's going through, and start over, so-to-speak. If you are to the point where the end of the roll pin looks like the end result of a loaded cigar, then cut it off and try again, if you use a hack saw blade, try pulling the blade instead of pushing, the act of cutting wil also help to knock some of the rust loose/out. I know that there isn't much room under there but with a little patience it can be done. Don't let the "hardened" part of roll pin, freak you out, they really aren't that bad, matter of fact I just did one... One night this past week.

Take a little time to "cool out" crawl under there, relax, and realize that you are going to be there until it's cut off, so there is no need to get excited about anything, until you are just about done. Then you can get as excited as you want. Sometimes it helps to talk to yourself a little along the way.

Good luck!

Thank you all
 

THANK YOU ALL, after getting the p b blaster soaking pin for about 4 hours and repeating this step about 6 times then hitting it with heat (propane tourch) 3 times the pin finally came out. I feel like I just climbed mount everest. Now on to the next step getting engine loose and moved so i can take clutch out. Again Guys thanks for all your help. Enclosed a picture of my little friend

Well its done, clutch is out and apart. Lucky the front and hood came off easy and the engine bolts came out easy. Moved the engine forward and clutch came out. It looks like I'am going to almost all new parts. The release bearing came out in pieces and it had put a grove in the Shaft. The clutch release lever is shot the new bearing will pass through it. teasing spring in pieces . The clutch sping looks to be in good shape. (CAN YOU REUSE THESE). The 2 pressure plates look ok and the Driving plate seems ok. IS IT OK TO REUSEDTHESE PARTS? I price all this out and I beleive it was $550.00.
What does everyone do? Again thanks for the help!!!

fer100

Great job getting the pin out, is that picture of it's final days as you know it (as in are you going to get new spirol pins (coiled pins) ?

If your at all handy you may be able to save some money along the way of making some parts yourself, also being frugal in your shopping. Check with the sponsors here, also do a google search for Brian Miller, he has an outstanding page, what I like about him is everything he sells he explains how to make, or repair..that's just class in my opinion. Don't forget Ebay, however it's always a chance you will get junk stuff, but some parts you may be able to come out good on. I have seen complete drive shafts for wide frame 1450 etc sell for $20 that's casting, good looking shaft, you would just need to replace fan, and rag joints on most I seen.

Clint

clint, Been online looking prices up Parts tree-Ihccw-C C Speclist- CCC. I also want to go to the local IH dealer and ccc dealer to see what they will charge. I do have a line on a parts tactor 122 that just happens to have a rebuild clutch in it . Guy thinks its cherry but its half apart rusted gas tank no carb no battery wants mower deck spinals very loose but in 1 piece 350.00. Says but its a antique. said I would give him 150.00 said he has to talk to his son.

Keep it in your pocket as a reminder... You will get it done. BTW I know that feeling and it keeps me going. - Peace -

It depends on what area your in, how bad you want/need, and many other things as to what stuff is worth. If your not careful you will have more money in used parts than you originally paid for overall sound cub cadet. I would still scan ebay for a driveshaft before I done anything, also find out what all will work in your cub before you start.

Clint

Here is a drawing of a narrow frame clutch assembly:
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...fclutchass.gif
Here are the areas I check out:
1. The area where the throw out bearing(3) rides needs to be smooth. The driveshaft(1) should be replaced if the driveshaft has any groves in it. They are easy to make if you have a drill press.
Here is a good example of a driveshaft that needs replaced:
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...0Dick/UD90.jpg
2. The clutch drive plates(5 and 7)must be trued in a lathe.
before:
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...0Dick/UD93.jpg
after trued on a lathe:
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...%20100/h78.jpg


3. The clutch disk(6) needs to be replaced. You can buy a replacement disk from Cub Cadet. My Son's 86 on steroids has a kevlar/fiberglass composite clutch disc in it. The motor in the 86 is making over 20 horsepower. The clutch disk seams to hold better than the Cub Cadet brand disk so far. Summer tug of wars and fall plow days will be a good test. The disk was purchase from Midwest Super Cub
http://www.midwestsupercub.net/clutches.htm
Vogal Manufacturing
http://www.vogelmanufacturing.com/st...ain_page=index
has a good clutch disk too.
4. Inspect the throwout bearing(3)-replace as needed.
5. Inspect teaser spring(4)-replace as needed. I usually install a new on every clutch I do.
6. Inspect the clutch bracket(9) for wear-you can rebuild or replace as needed. I've done both.
7. Inspect the clutch release lever(10)-I have repaired the top holes where the pin goes through. The clutch release lever is replaced if there is any wear around the throwout bearing area.
8. Check the pin that goes between the clutch bracket and clutch release lever for wear. Replace as needed.
9. Clutch Driver(8) Check the drive pins and bushing in the clutch driver for wear. Replace as needed. I replace the pins and bushing when I rebuild a clutch.
10. I replace all the 1/4 X 1 1/2 spiroid pins in the driveshaft.

Pins and bushing are cheap from McMaster-Carr.

Merk has some great advice there...I've also rebuilt several clutches, and it only costs about $130. I'd stay away from used ebay clutches...how will you know they are any better than what you have. A new main spring is less than $20...replace it while you're in there. They get weak over time. New friction disc, pilot bushing, teaser spring, main spring, and spirol pins are a must. You'll most likely have to replace the throwout bearing as well. The driveshaft is easy to make with a drill press, as Merk said.

Merk, Thanks for the reply. You answered my Question and I have a few more. , I will need A new Shaft to much wear, New release level, new throw out bear, teaser spring, clutch disc, your before after shots of pressure plates are they the same plates or new. I don't have a lathe where could I get that done to the old ones. If i get new do i still have to lathe them? How do you tell if a clutch spring is good you don't say anything about that. And I will replace all spiral pins. In you picture below the clutch spring by the washer what is that part it's not showed in the clutch picture. I will go over the clutch driver in the morning but it looked tight when i removed the engine.

I can probably answer some of that for you. Used pressure plates need to be trued up. New ones do not. You could weld up the wear on the release lever and grind it smooth. If the clutch spring is rusty and/or pitted (and it will be) replace it. It's cheap and you don't want to go back in there again.

I went on the midwest site they have a complete clutch assemby for 265.00 want is you thoughts on that? That way all I would have to do see take it out of the box and put it in

It's your money and you can do what you want. But you can do it cheaper yourself.

Several people on here have lathes...perhaps you could get one of them to turn your pressure plates for you?

The clutch drive plates are a used set I trued on a lathe. The clutch is in this Cub
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...20100/h304.jpg
I look for broken clutch spring. I'm like Matt....I replace both springs when I rebuild a clutch.
The driveshaft in my 100 is a cold roll steel that was purchase local hardware store.

For those who don't have the equipment to rebuild a clutch Brian Miller can help you out. Here is a link to his site:
*************************************************
I rebuild clutches too if anyone is interrested. My email address is in my profile.

The clutch that Midwest has is a pulling clutch. That one is overkill for any Cub under 12-14 horsepower.