Ok Steve, so I have a question for you:

So, on that 1641 you have, you never said if the crank pistons and rods were new. Assuming the crank was used, and the other parts were new (I'd still like to know what parts, if any, were new) are you going to disclose you did a half assed overhaul on the motor before you sell it? Or are you just going to state it was "overhauled". If it spins a rod on that crank 20 hours after the sale, are you going to fix it for the buyer? I'm not nearly as interested in what you tell a buyer, as I am whether you stand behind your work.

I answer any question truthfully when selling, provide detailed descriptions and pictures in my ads, and stand behind any work I did with a guarantee. By hours, miles or a given time period. Otherwise the sale is final. If I didn't work on the brakes, they are "as is". If I didn't replace a seal, it is "as is".

When buying, I assume the seller is FOS. Too many "mechanic wannabes" out there. I try to avoid those people and go after the "mechanic specials", and I never complain to the seller later about any problems.

Now, if you are buying from a dealer that put the item through a "thorough check list" and it is "good to go" , that's different. Now they are trying to pull the wool over your eyes. But generally speaking individuals simply have no idea. It's not that they are trying to be dishonest..... they honestly just don't know any better. Gotta take the good with the bad buying from an individual.

That is an incredible story. :biggrin2:

From what my neighbor tells me it was quite the scene. He brings it up often. One time years later he was amazed to see the guy at my house visiting.

Do you need my replaced parts inventory list? I used a used crank, used pistons and used rods from a low hour donor engine (as in the rods pistons and crank from the same donor engine) and it was NOT disclosed to me why the donor engine was cracked apart and sold in pieces but the parts looked in great condition, and new rings, honed cylinders, new seals, new crankcase gasket, and new head gaskets. If I sell it, it won't be for a while down the road, well past 20 hours... and yes, if I sell it, all that will be disclosed that it was rebuilt with these parts at 560 hours. I have put 6 hours on it already, it starts right up and runs strong, and does not smoke. And lastly, I'm not getting into another rock fight on this board, and on someone elses thread... but you always just assume everything I do is "half assed". By the way, that hydraulic steering cylinder still does not leak and it is working fabulous... :bigeyes:.

Since you used 20 hours after the sale as an example, how many hours do you think is good use after a sale for something to happen and not be the sellers fault? And if applicable, how many hours should I run it before selling it for you to feel comfortable with my work before I sell it. If I run it for 200 hours, and everything is fine, and I sell it, and it breaks 20 hours after the sale, is that still on my "half assed" rebuild in your mind? Should I run it another 500 hours before I sell it to make sure my "half assed" work is good? You tell me... I am not about to slap something together and sell it right away, and say "yep this thing is good as new, never had a problem with it", and then say too bad if something goes wrong with it.

Well Steve, that is a loaded question.
Putting used parts on an engine isn't a "rebuild" it is a repair. I've got a Deere I plan to sell. KT17 Series I motor. Burns oil faster than gas. I plan to put on another set of jugs (used) and sell it. I'll probably put 4 or 5 hours on it and put it up for sale. I will disclose the repair and probably offer a 30 day warranty as there is no hour meter on it. On a repair like you made, like it or not, it is half assed. Mine will be too, but I admit that. The tractor and engine neither one are worth a new engine, and I wouldn't make a dime selling it if I put a new engine in it. A time limit (30 day) warranty is the only safe way to go on that for both you and the seller.

Now, on a new engine, like I build and sell, I still do time limits, as I have no idea if the machine it's going in has an hour meter, or how many hours the buyer uses the machine. Also, I seldom build up complete running engines. Since I'm not the one putting on the carb and setting the timing, I can't give much of a warranty. What if the carb is set too lean and it scores a piston? That's not my fault. So, I give a 30 day limited warranty that is subject the return and tear down of the engine. If my parts or workmanship failed, it's on me. If the valves are white, and the top edge of the cylinder is melted.... not my fault, it's on the buyer. If I was to build up a complete running engine I tuned, I'm not afraid of a 1yr, 100 hour (whichever comes first) warranty.

I've only ever had 2 motors that I had to warranty after a rebuild. They weren't for lawn tractors, and neither left my possession. One was a B5.9 Cummins that I failed to completely torque 2 rods in. Started knocking 5 min after its initial start. The other one was a 4.0L Jeep. We think it had metal stuck in an oil jacket from the previous failure that washed into the rod bearing on #6. Block had been tanked and properly cleaned. Started knocking on the test drive, so I drove it longer than normal to diagnose it. I ended up stopping and towing it to avoid further damage.

So.... how long a warranty should you give? None if you aren't comfortable with it. Nothing wrong at all selling something "as is". But I think if you want to buy and rebuild things to sell, then you should offer a warranty. 30 days is more than fair. I've sold plenty of things "as is".

Bahahahaha!:ROTF1:

OK kids play nice. :biggrin2:

Great answer Jonathan. Here's another example I just remembered of my standing by my work. Someone brought me an old Snapper tractor to work on last summer, the starter was fried. I forget the tractor model, but it's an old one, with a Briggs opposed twin engine in it. I replaced the starter for $20 over the cost of the new OEM starter. He took it home and mowed with it several times. Called me back a month later saying the starter is making a grinding sound and not working. I told him to bring it back to me. I looked at it, and the starter bolts came loose and the starter ground the plastic gears off. I replaced the starter gear, and locktite'd the bolts to hold it in and didn't charge him a thing because I didn't know if I just didn't get them in tight or they came loose on their own somehow, he still gave me $20 for the additional work but I didn't charge him and I even told him that wasn't necessary because it might have been my fault.

As for my engine rebuild, I think you and I have different definitions of "half assed" and "rebuild". Putting back together an engine that is broken inside with whole used parts qualifies as a "rebuild with used parts" in my opinion. Half assed would be something like if the rod went through the side of the engine and cracked it, if I would go and "weld" or something like that to seal it up. Obviously that's extremely half assed. Or, when splicing an electrical wire just twisting two wires together and wrapping with electrical tape rather than using a crimped butt terminal for the correct wire gauge with heat shrink to splice a wire would be an example of a half assed repair. These definitions could come down to splitting hairs too, just like the original topic of discussion.

I don't use the term LOL, because I rarely laugh out loud like an idiot. But I just did. That was hilarious.

The old cubs are alot like women to me as well the ones that may look rough may suprise you how nice they really are. On the other hand you find a beautiful machine that looks flawless may give you nothing but trouble. Seriously though I prefer to buy non rummers (cheaper) and when I meet a seller im kind of a quiet guy by nature I usually dont say a word just start looking the tractor over and 9/10 times the seller just starts talking. I never really sold anything though.