I appreciate your input and I'm learning a lot reading your posts. Are you a small engine mechanic?

I work on small engines.... so I guess so. But no, I'm a heavy duty guy. But I owned my own shop for years. Worked on small engines, through automotive and heavy equipment. Small engines is more of a hobby. Rebuilding a 4L80E GM trans today.

149 rebuild
 

Thanks J-Mech for the quick and understandable response. I did buy the gauge that goes from .0015 to .040. It has many strips in the .003 to .008 range. Maybe more. It is down stairs and I am up stairs. To the others, I do have an old but good ring compressor and I am not a small engine mechanic and no I have never had a small engine apart, other than in the 60's and 70's I did have a few 2 stroke motorcycle dirt bike engines apart. Back then we had an engine bored by the motorcycle shop and they matched it to the new piston. Never questioned them. Probably should have but my brother and I were too eager to get the engine back together. Any thing that I learned back then was probably wrong and I can hardly remember any thing about it. A good thing.
J-Mech, I will try to check things per your specified instructions and diagram. I really appreciate all the good help and hope that you and others that are helping will not get tired of my posts before this engine comes to life. Have a great day.
Bob

149 Rebuild
 

Did some work on the engine this morning. Checked the ring end gap and had to open both up a little. Pushed each ring in cyl. about half way down one at a time with piston. Both were too tight . Carefully filed rings and when finished, one was .014 the other was .015. Shop manual called for .010 to .020. Checked filed edges to remove any burrs. Put connecting rod on piston making sure the springs that go on each end were fully in their grooves. Oiled the shaft that goes through the rod well. Put rings on piston starting with oil ring first. Put in the oil spacer ring first, then a thin ring at bottom of spacer and second thin ring at top of spacer. Set ring end gaps at 180 degrees apart. Then installed the ring just above the oil rings. It is thinner than the top ring. Lastly installed the the top ring. All rings moved freely. Staggered the top two ring openings to 120 degrees apart. Oiled the rings pretty heavily, and put my ring compressor on the piston and put it well down below the rings. Tightened the compressor. Oiled the cyl. Aligned the piston so as the oil hole in rod cap would be facing the camshaft.Put oil on bottom end of rod and on the crank journal. Made sure that ring compressor was down square on top of cyl. Took rubber mallet and gently tapped piston down in cylinder as I held connecting rod to keep it from hitting the cyl. wall. Made sure the rod was properly aligned with the crank journal and tapped rest of the way down. Oiled the rod cap and installed. Torqued to 285 inch pounds. Had to convert to foot pounds as my small torque wrench only went to 200 inch pounds. I think the foot pounds was 23.6 but I am not sure. I have the number written down down stairs but computer is upstairs. Will try to do a little more tomorrow. One picture attached. Have a great day.
Bob

What was your piston clearance?

You have a ft/lb torque wrench that reads that low???

I do. I have one that goes down to 5ftlbs.

I also have an inch pound that only goes up to like 50, and I also have a 3/4" drive that goes to 600ftlbs.:biggrin2:

I have at least 4 torque wrenches....that I remember.

149 rebuild
 

J-Mech, I slid a .005 ribbon in and slid the piston in. Very light resistance as I pulled out the ribbon. Slid in a .006 and then the piston. Using two fingers on the ribbon, had a pretty good resistance. Then checked it in four places as you stated. Had pretty much the same resistance at each point. Then tried a .007 ribbon and piston was a little hard to get in and ribbon had a lot harder pull to get out. I concluded the gap was .006. Thanks for your help and have a great day.
Bob

I think what you posted is very informative, I'm very sure J-mech knows what he's talking about!
Time to play on my Cub, thanks again for posting.
Kevin

Skirt clearance of .006-.007 is within spec. I like to see them tighter, but that is within spec.

Yup so do I.... but you and me aren't the ones doing this particular job that the thread is about.... that question was meant for the OP.

People don't realize but converting units of torque is often one of those ideas that is better on paper.

Without looking back within the thread, I think there was some in/lb measurement that came out to (something like) 23.6 ft/lb. I'll use that figure for argument's sake.

In/lb. is a much "finer" scale than ft/lb. which is kind of "coarse".

The whole reason for torqueing something to a certain setting is to control distortion, tighten evenly/equally, stretch the bolts to optimum and not beyond, and also to not "strip" any threads. Sometimes you can go past that prime point of "tight" and not realize that something is starting to strip out until it is under stress, from thermal heat/cold cycles to mechanical "work". If not done right, you might as well use a plain ol ratchet and socket. Sometimes approximating by using a coarser scale, isn't any better than not using a torque wrench at all.

I, too, have several torque wrenches from the old Craftsman beam style, to 3-4 clickers in between, up to (probably the same) 3/4", that goes to 600 ft/lb that Jon has. I have both in/lb and ft/lb and even a fancy expensive digital one that I can change units on, just by pushing a button. The snap on guy really liked me that day, ha ha....

One thing to keep in mind here, is that most torque wrenches are NOT ACCURATE in the lower 20% OF THEIR SCALE> which often starts somewhere other than zero.
On one of my Snap on clickers, it goes from 20lb to 250 ft/lb. So 20% of 250 would be 50 ft/lb. But the scale starts at 20.
so 250-20=230 lbs of "scale" 230/5= 46. so for the 1st 46 lbs of scale that torque wrench isn't as accurate as it is in the top 80% "of scale". So we add 46 to 20 (the lowest the scale reads) we come up with 66 ft/lb. That is the lowest reading to which that torque wrench can be "trusted. almost 3x the "converted" in/lb. to ft/lb number that you are dealing with on that rod spec. and then if the reading is to be 23.6, how do you know if you got 22.8 or 25.1 ft/lb? and are both exactly THE SAME? Sometimes "close enough," isn't.

I completely understand, we all had to start somewhere, and most had basically "nothing" when we did start working on things (some had access to tools at work, or at Dad's garage, or the neighbor, whatever) and I also completely understand not wanting to buy a tool to be used one time and then collect dust. Been there many times as well. BUT when we set out to do a job, we set out to do it right, the best that we can. and in a case like this, if the job doesn't last, most likely nobody will get physically hurt (tractor engine blows up, you hear a boom... but no bloody limbs and such) but the time it takes to do it right (and I am glad to see you asking questions to help be sure it is, in fact, right) isn't much more time than to do it haphazardly... but the difference in results, and how long they last, can be HUGE. I myself hate redo's. Yes you still learn from having to redo a job, and maybe more so than it everything turns out like you hope and expect it to. but for what it costs to have to redo something, that's what hurts....

I'm saying all of this because though Jon hammers on some of the details like your piston to wall clearance, there are certain fasteners that need to be tightened "just right". and by converting in/lb to ft/lb and the result being that low on the chosen scale, it is extremely hard to be accurate.

In this case you would be better off begging, borrowing, or (no, probably not stealing) a torque wrench of the scale you need for the job at hand.
At very least I'd be watching garage sales, auctions flea markets and such for some of these tools that you need but not all that often. if only for "next time".
I am NOT AT ALL a fan of Harbor Freight but in a case like this for what you think might be a 1- time deal they can be handy. Never know, if youre like the rest of us your 149 won't wind up being your "only" Cub, you'll use this stuff again!!!

Having said all of that, I appreciate reading threads like this of somebody "digging in and getting their hands dirty" instead of today's mentality of either A) "throw it away and get a new one" or B) "let someone else do it for me, and I'll just write a big check"...and it appears by your questions, you know your limitations/ believe me, we all have them.... but for all the work it takes to do a job like this, if you want it to last another 20 years, heck even 5 years, you gotta do things right.
The most important fasteners to torque "the right way" on one of these engines, is the rod. The head comes in a close 2nd. so all that said, I wish you luck on your project, I hope it holds up for as long as you need it to and maybe beyond. but if it doesn't, just remember things like this....

While you make a really good case, and explain it really well..... it's not that big a deal. I've done a lot of these motors. I just convert to ft lbs if it goes beyond my inlb torque wrenches limit. I've used the bottom end of the scale so many times on my small 3/8" click type Snap-On wrench it's silly. I have never had a failure that was a result of over or under torquing. I'm sure that if you put a wrench on a test stand, it would confirm that they aren't as accurate... which is likely why they tell you that, but here's something I do know: I too spent big dollars on a digital Snap-On torque wrench that is supposed to be accurate all through the scale since it uses a sensor, and not a spring. When torquing with it, you can visually watch the scale, and it lets out a beep (which I can seldom hear) and also vibrates in my hand. Once you have reached the torque, the screen displays the max torque you put on the fastener. I have never had it land EXACTLY on the torque I was shooting for. Sometimes it goes off just before the proper torque is reached, sometimes it goes over. It is pretty amazing to see when doing a head on say a DT466 IH motor, how far apart it shows you are torquing. Maybe 15 pounds difference between bolts. Now, that is at the top end of the scale, but I think you would find there is so much variance between when you feel that wrench click (if that is the style you are using) and what it actually torques as there is on that digital wrench. If you take an old beam style wrench and compare it to a new digital, you would find very little difference between them. While I agree that torquing is important, how it gets done really has little consequence, at least in this application. Now, the newer stuff is a little more sensitive. Sheared rod bearings and powder forged cranks are just more sensitive. Besides, now they have went to almost all torque-to-yield fasteners anyway, so you have to get a new bolt every time you torque it. (Stupid.) This old Kohler was engineered in the days of beam wrenches and the slide rule. Whatever wrench he used is likely no worse than they had at the time it was new. I'm confident it will be fine. I've done too many things not to be sure. What's important is he torqued it. :beerchug:

I used the installation of a head on a Kohler as a way to check calibration between my wrenches. A 30 year old beam,3/8 HF and a 1/2 Carquest Pro Value.Very very close, which i would call equal. Which do i trust the most? The beam. Mike:biggrin2:

Good post Dodge.


Another alternative to China Freight is buying good used commercial tools. Over 40 yrs of wrenching I've bought a pretty complete set of US made tools, and they're always a pleasure to use and will outlast me.

Ebay, Garage Journal, CL, etc are all good sources of affordable well made tools. Having the right tool for the job always feels better than rigging something to make it work and doesn't have to be all that expensive.

Bob, you're doing great!

Does anyone get their torque wretches re-calibrated? When working for Teledyne, all measuring equipment had to be re-calibrated on a regular basis.

Since I'm not selling things to the government like Teledyne, I just check one against another (I've got several from a Craftsman beam to a Tool Truck and a commercial US made one with a federal stock number ob it) . They're quite close.

Teledyne has a bigger profit margin than my wrenching produces (which in dollars is 0$, but in therapy is quite valuable) :beerchug:

Only a few times. Unless I suspect a problem, I don't. I had one fail one time torquing a head. I thought it was pulling too hard and not clicking off. Broke a head bolt. Since then I randomly check them against another wrench.

Edit:
Supposedly, the digital wrenches never need calibration. According to my Snap-On man, they will tell you if they have a calibration error.

my most recent Snap on and mac guys have the calibration checker on their tool trucks for customers to be able to use any time.
I do check my clickers, now and again. my co worker found his to be "way" off back about 4 months ago so sent it in to be recalibrated.....

149 rebuild
 

Once again I want to thank all that are posting to this thread. I started drag racing in the 60's and 70's. Had a 63 Chevrolet belair with a 283 engine. Bought several books on rebuilding car engines. Every thing I knew back then was self taught. I tore the engine down in the fall each year and went through it and replaced any thing I felt was out of spec. I bought a Craftsman torque wrench back then. I did not have a lot of extra money back then, nor do I now. I used that wrench to torque the rods, main bearings and head bolts. Never had a failure using that wrench. Never blew an engine. So I thought nothing of using that same wrench on this engine. I did not know it could be so far off converting inch pounds to foot pounds. They are torqued and I am going with that. Did buy a Harbor Freight torque wrench that is in inch pounds. Did not read the shop manual close enough or I just plain forgot that I would need over 200 inch pounds reading. Another Senior Moment. I have them a lot.:biggrin2: Did a preliminary adjustment of the valves today. Caught something that I should have caught years ago. I have an old set of feeler gauges. I think it goes from .001 to .040. I was setting the intake valves to .009. My .010 blade is messed up so I tried a .011 blade to see if it would slide in between the valve and the tappet. Lo and behold it slid in easier than the .009 blade. Found a couple more blades that evidently were mis marked. I had used this gauge for years setting points on my motorcycles. Can't believe I didn't catch that before now. Got the oil pan on and torqued down today. Also got the dip stick and oil fill part installed. Going to have to put engine on a Harbor Freight 4 wheel dolly that I rigged so that the engine will sit securely. Getting too heavy for me to be lifting. Going to buy a multimeter that beeps so I can set the points while on work bench. Will recheck valves and points once the fly wheel is on so I can be sure of the timing marks. Have a great day.
Bob

Ok a couple of things here, with the torque wrench thing, a car engine rod main and head bolts are spec'd out in ft/lb so that was right. But when you're racing 1/4 mile you measure time in seconds and portions thereof, you don't use minutes and try to judge how long it takes to cover the distance, right? Same idea of ft/lb to in/lb when measuring tightening specs. I see that though dated, you do have some mechanical experience that still applies. Just having to deal with 1 cylinder instead of 8. It should be fine, like has been said. But as I am going thru the process stuff like that kinda bugs me.
Now that said, I admit that I don't torque everything that can possibly be, on one of these engines, but I do on the critical fasteners.

My 2 cents on the beeping multimeter....I have them and think they are great for checking continuity where you can't work and watch the meter at the same time. But I have found that sometimes the beep and the exact instant of contact can be misleading. I believe that a test light across the points can give you a more precise setting. If you have the motor on the bench just hook a battery lead to the points terminal screw and put your test light between the other battery terminal and the engine block (ground). Points open - light off, points closed - light on. With the flywheel set on the "S" timing mark you should be able to get the points set to where the light almost flickers. The beeper on the meter won't give you that.

EDIT: up above I should say "a test light in series with the points", not "across the points"

I agree with Iron... I own a pro quality multimeter (Fluke 87) and while it's a darned good meter, the "beep" to indicate continuity IS delayed from the actual event.

A test light is instantaneous (and cheap)

Just my 0.02

John

149 rebuild
 

Dodge Trucker I have looked online for an inch/pound torque wrench that has a reading up to 200 inch/pounds. They are way more than I can afford. I do not know of any place that rents them or know any one that has one to loan. I feel sure that you know what you are talking about but I am going to have to go with what I torqued it to and hope it is not too far off specs. This Tractor will not be used much so I feel sure it will out last me. I really appreciate your input.

Ironman & jBrewer Thanks for your information on the meter that beeps. Was going to Harbor Freight today to purchase one but you have convinced me not to. Going to take your advise and set the points with a test light. Thanks for instructing how to use this method with the engine on the work bench.
Have a great day,
Bob

I've been using a multimeter as a continuity tester for static timing these engines for years. I never notice any delay--it beeps the instant you touch the probes together and stops as soon as the circuit is broken. I have a Greenlee and a couple Flukes. No delay that I can detect.

Mr. Bob, test light is probably cheaper...so go for it.

Experiment: I just tried tapping the leads on my beeper meter together many times as fast as I can. I didn't hear a beep at least 50% of those taps. Of course it's not an $80 Fluke. Then I tried tapping my $5 test light across the terminals of a battery (as fast as I possibly can). I could see the light flash 100% of those taps. This only proves that my eyes are better than my ears.

That is the best answer! Lol!
I can't hear the beep on my meter anyway. I go get my kids if I have to use that function. They think it's funny I can't hear it. I can hear it if it's dead silent, and the meter is near my head. They, can hear it with a radio on and a fan blowing, lol!

Beep? hell I lucky to hear any sound high pitched like that.
Good thing I can't hear a cricket in the house :beerchug:
Was a time it drove me crazy.
So there are good points about tinnitus.

149 rebuild
 

You guys are funny. I have 2 test lights( don't ask me why). I an going to try this method on the work bench today. Thanks to all. Have a great day.
Bob

Yup I too get to hear crickets even though it is winter, notice it mostly when I have everything in the house shut off and I head to bed, could be worse sounds...
I occasionally get the "you don't hear that?" From others around me. mostly (I think) it's higher pitch sounds.
I remember my industrial maintenance days, we were req'd to get our hearing tested once a year and between the last 2 times they said something about missing some higher end stuff that I was ok with previous time, that was 10 years ago sure I am no better these days than I was then

149 rebuild
 

Thank you Ironman for giving detailed instructions on setting the time with engine on a work bench. Gave it a shot yesterday and I believe this is the best the timing has ever been. So much easier on the work bench. After setting the time, I rolled the crank over 2 times, came back to the "S" on crank and it was spot on. Also checked the valve lash and had to make an adjustment to it. Had it pretty close when setting it with out the fly wheel on to determine top dead center. Thanks and have a great day.
Bob

We are all here like castaways with a sickness, marooned on uncharted island in the Pacific. The more we help each other out, the longer we will all survive.
(is that profound, or what?)

149 rebuild
 

Made some progress on my 149 engine rebuild the past few days. The engine is now installed in the tractor and I started it up for the first time yesterday. Engine turned over about 2 times and hit as soon as I set the choke. I immediately pushed the choke back open and the engine died. Started it again and it hit as soon as I closed the choke. Slowly opened choke and engine kept running. Released the brake and moved hydro lever forward and moved tractor to just in front of garage. Had engine throttle a little below half throttle. Let the engine run for about 30 minutes. Shut engine off and let cool. After it cooled, I re-torqued the head bolts. Took a quick video of it running along with a few pictures of the engine going into the frame. Could hear a miss in engine every now and then, but I have not adjusted the carb.. Hope an adjustment will take the miss out. Did not see any oil under engine this morning but I have my fingers crossed. Will not be able to work on it today, but maybe tomorrow morning. Will try to attach pictures and video. Thanks for every ones help, and have a great day. Have to post again for video.
Bob

Fantastic!

I'm sure you'll tune out that small miss when you get to adjusting the carb.

Thanks for the great narrative and pics and letting us look over your shoulder Bob!

John

Glad to hear you got it running Bob.:beerchug:

149 Rebuild
 

Hope this video will upload. It has been timing out before it finishes. Video must be too long. Sorry.
Bob

You can't post a video right to this site. You have to upload it to YouTube first and then post a link to it.

Good to hear Bob! :ThumbsUp:

Great yob Bob. Compression release doing its thing?

149 rebuild
 

Not had any time to adjust the carburetor. My Daughter and her twin 15 year old daughters were in from Maryland for a few days. They left this morning and I went down to the garage to take a shorter video of the tractor running. We all love pictures and videos. Turned the key to start and the starter did not turn one revolution before it started. I am a believer of setting the time while engine is on work bench. Still has a slight miss but I am too tired to adjust it today. Alvy the cam compression release is doing it's job. Have no problem with the compression like I had before. Thanks every one for the help and parts. Going to try to post this shorter video again. I thought that I had posted a video to a thread before from my computer. Have a great day.
Could not post as some one has stated. Can anyone suggest a good free site where I can upload the video? Thanks.
Bob

YouTube. It's free.