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  #11  
Old 06-21-2017, 09:51 PM
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Looks like fun, rescue, bet the insulation panels were pricey but it makes for fast installation.
I like the guy with the joystick pumping the perishable product.
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  #12  
Old 06-22-2017, 06:38 AM
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Rescue, thanks for the pics. I have a few questions on your install.

--What is the foam board you used and what is the cost? I looked at the 2" pink board at Home Cheapo and it is $36 for a 4x8 sheet. My slab is going to be 2400sf so I will need 75 sheets.

--What is it that you put up against the footer? I think all I have seen on the vids is that they run the 2" foam up to the top of the crete. I didn't think that looked right.

--Do I need 2" or could I use 1" at half the cost? I'm thinking probably 2" is the way to go.

--Did you put a vapor barrier down?

--I've seen it put down like your job is and then some people say the pex has to be in the middle of the crete to work properly. Most vids I've seen show the pex on top of the rebar but I'm like you, wouldn't there be some type of problem over time with expansion and contraction?

--Did you zone your job?

--Do you think I need to use the 5/8 for my job or will the 1/2" work?

--I will probably be using a propane tankless water heater for my source but I'm not sure what the codes say here for using them. I may be telling Mr. Inspector that the pex is for future use. Have you seen them used up your way?

Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm sure I will have more questions.
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  #13  
Old 06-22-2017, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oak View Post
Rescue, thanks for the pics. I have a few questions on your install.

--What is the foam board you used and what is the cost? I looked at the 2" pink board at Home Cheapo and it is $36 for a 4x8 sheet. My slab is going to be 2400sf so I will need 75 sheets.

I used "Thermo Snap"
foam. It is 2" thick, and comes in 4x4 sheets. Its really nice because it has grooves notched every 6". We rolled the tubing into the notches and then put staples as needed. My cost (whole sale) was around $12.00 per sheet, so its cheaper and IMO way better than striking snap lines and using thousands of staples.




--What is it that you put up against the footer? I think all I have seen on the vids is that they run the 2" foam up to the top of the crete. I didn't think that looked right.

It is basically foil backed bubble wrap. I use it sometimes for insulating duct. It actually has an r-value of about 3 per wrap. It is also (around here) an acceptable expansion joint, that doubles as an insulator.
It works very nicely.




--Do I need 2" or could I use 1" at half the cost? I'm thinking probably 2" is the way to go.

Obviously Nebraska has different heating requirements than GA, but energy is never going to get cheaper, and its not like you "just re-do it down the road" Its pretty much perminant.

--Did you put a vapor barrier down?

No, the theory is by tightly, and I mean TIGHT, laying the foam, a vapor barrier is not necessary.

--I've seen it put down like your job is and then some people say the pex has to be in the middle of the crete to work properly. Most vids I've seen show the pex on top of the rebar but I'm like you, wouldn't there be some type of problem over time with expansion and contraction?

Whether you want to or not, your heating the entire slab from the insulation, up. The concrete is one massive heat sink, so placement in relation to the surface is a myth. Tying it on the rebar not only makes it a bitch, in comparison to install, but with the expansion and contraction you have potential leaks at every wire. I have dug up many a water line that has a rock against it and just the flow of water running through the line created a leak. We do not want this in our 22,000.00 of concrete. I made sure all the wire was picked up from the rebar guys before they poured.

--Did you zone your job? We basically have two bays on the south and north part of an existing building, so yes they are zoned. But its just the south and north zone. Unless you are partitioning off a section its not worth zoning. Infloor is slow, you set the temp and leave it alone.



--Do you think I need to use the 5/8 for my job or will the 1/2" work?


For an area that size its alot easier to use 5/8" for the friction loss and pressure drop. For prospective, each addition pictured is 3,500 square feet.



--I will probably be using a propane tankless water heater for my source but I'm not sure what the codes say here for using them. I may be telling Mr. Inspector that the pex is for future use. Have you seen them used up your way?


Absolutely, Essentially that is what we are using, however Im installing a 325K Lochinvar Modulating boiler. About 100K per zone on heating and then installing braze-plate heatx for Domestic water. We will have better than 15GPM @ 100* rise with the boiler maxed on heating call flowing that many GPM

Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm sure I will have more questions.
Let me know if you have any more questions
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  #14  
Old 06-23-2017, 03:43 PM
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Crap, this is the reply I got back from the Thermo-Snap rep. Well, looks like he was out for my best interest and not a sale. Kudos to him and his company. I guess I need to ask around what to use or can that idea.

His reply.

Todd,

Thanks for your inquiry about Thermo-Snap by Benchmark Foam. Full disclosure, according to IRC Building Code, the entire state of Georgia is considered "Very Heavy Termite infestation probability."

The below statement is taken directly from the Code.

R318.4 Foam Plastic Protection

In areas where the probability of termite infestation is "very heavy" as indicated in Figure R301.2(6), extruded and expanded polystyrene, polyisocyanurate and other foam plastics shall not be installed on the exterior face or under interior or exterior foundation walls or slab foundations located below grade. The clearance between foam plastics installed above grade and exposed earth shall be not less than 6 inches (152 mm).

Now I am not trying to discourage you from any building methods you want to try, but I want to have everything up front.

If you are still interested in pricing, we would sell you directly but we would need to calculate a freight rate down to you.

Which zip code would this be shipping to??

Is this a commercial, residential, or job site address?

What kind of equipment is on hand to unload?

If you can get back directly to me with those answers, I can calculate all in pricing with freight included.

Once again, thanks for your interest in Thermo-Snap and let me know if you have any questions.
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Old 06-23-2017, 04:40 PM
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I may look into something like this if Mr. Inspector approves.

http://www.ecofoil.com/All-Products/...3ZdxoCDi_w_wcB
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Old 06-23-2017, 07:52 PM
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By no means discouraging your heating plan, just wondering why floor heat instead of a furnace of some sort? We probably get a little colder than you guys and I don't know of anyone with floor heating in their shop. Yes, I understand its really nice in the northern climates. Just wondering and learning as I have never seen or even heard of this around here.
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Old 06-23-2017, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oak View Post
Crap, this is the reply I got back from the Thermo-Snap rep. Well, looks like he was out for my best interest and not a sale. Kudos to him and his company. I guess I need to ask around what to use or can that idea.

His reply.

Todd,

Thanks for your inquiry about Thermo-Snap by Benchmark Foam. Full disclosure, according to IRC Building Code, the entire state of Georgia is considered "Very Heavy Termite infestation probability."

The below statement is taken directly from the Code.

R318.4 Foam Plastic Protection

In areas where the probability of termite infestation is "very heavy" as indicated in Figure R301.2(6), extruded and expanded polystyrene, polyisocyanurate and other foam plastics shall not be installed on the exterior face or under interior or exterior foundation walls or slab foundations located below grade. The clearance between foam plastics installed above grade and exposed earth shall be not less than 6 inches (152 mm).

Now I am not trying to discourage you from any building methods you want to try, but I want to have everything up front.

If you are still interested in pricing, we would sell you directly but we would need to calculate a freight rate down to you.

Which zip code would this be shipping to??

Is this a commercial, residential, or job site address?

What kind of equipment is on hand to unload?

If you can get back directly to me with those answers, I can calculate all in pricing with freight included.

Once again, thanks for your interest in Thermo-Snap and let me know if you have any questions.

I have heard that from inspectors up here in jersey, typically putting foam board, or fiber glass insulation board on exterior below grade walls is not code.

I would go with a overhead radiant heat unit.
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  #18  
Old 06-23-2017, 11:29 PM
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Nebraska allows it and some of the city's here have extreme codes bordering on insanity. However, different regions, different hurdles.

IF Radiant were not an option, I would want forced air w/98% afue and or heat pump, maybe even GEO... For a shiny new shop.

Tube heaters are OK, not a big fan and never push them.
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  #19  
Old 06-24-2017, 08:31 AM
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Radiant floor heat in Georgia is pretty much non existent. It doesn't get cold enough to justify it. On one end of this building will be an 800sf apartment for my MIL. I hate carpet so it will probably have a lot of tile or similar for flooring and I know that she will be cold walking on an unheated floor. Her place will have a separate heat pump system for heat and a/c.

My shop area will also have a heat pump system for its primary heat & a/c also.

I'm wanting to install the radiant because I think it's a good way to heat and would be cool to have. The cost isn't much for the oxygen barrier Pex either at $0.21/ft. I figured I would have a total of less than $700 in Pex pipe in the slab. I'm a commercial HVAC contractor so nothing will get subbed out. I will do it all myself at my own pace as time allows. If I had to pay out of pocket to have this done there would be no way I would ever think about it.
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
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Radiant floor heat in Georgia is pretty much non existent. It doesn't get cold enough to justify it. On one end of this building will be an 800sf apartment for my MIL. I hate carpet so it will probably have a lot of tile or similar for flooring and I know that she will be cold walking on an unheated floor. Her place will have a separate heat pump system for heat and a/c.

My shop area will also have a heat pump system for its primary heat & a/c also.

I'm wanting to install the radiant because I think it's a good way to heat and would be cool to have. The cost isn't much for the oxygen barrier Pex either at $0.21/ft. I figured I would have a total of less than $700 in Pex pipe in the slab. I'm a commercial HVAC contractor so nothing will get subbed out. I will do it all myself at my own pace as time allows. If I had to pay out of pocket to have this done there would be no way I would ever think about it.
And you will love it when you're done. I don't think it matters where you're at, in floor is awesome.
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