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  #1  
Old 11-29-2017, 06:56 PM
dodge trucker dodge trucker is offline
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Default Engine question

this is not on a Cub, though it could be. It does have to do with a Kohler K341 though.

I have several tractors, not all of them Cubs. my others are Ariens and early 70's New Holland.

Anyways I found a deal on another Ariens GT16, with a snow blower, deck and a set of wheel weights. I am buying it solely for these items, because snow blowers alone for these machines go for 3x what I am getting the whole unit for.... but I still gotta go into Wisconsin (just barely) for it...

Here is the catch... the garage this thing was in caught fire, the tires are melted, the fiberglass hood is destroyed, but strangely the snow blower looks unscathed. the deck was not in the fire zone. I may try and see if "anything" might be salvageable from this tractor itself, but aside from the engine I am expecting the tractor to basically be dead weight to take to scrap.
The tractor was not the source of the fire, but more so "collateral damage" as it just happened to be sitting in there when the fire happened.

So now you have the back story, here is my issue.
Supposedly, the engine ran great before the fire, but now seems stuck. I am hoping that it is something (like) a stuck melted PTO clutch or something along that line, causing the engine to be stuck. Won't know til I get into it.
but for what K341s go for these days I AM keeping that.
What are the chances, that the internals weren't hurt? I am hoping that I can pull the engine, take it down to the short block, replace gaskets and seals and have a good engine again. I expect to have to replace the starter, stator, tune up parts etc, plus the standard decarbon, tune up, carb rebuild etc... but got my fingers crossed I won't have to get into a full blown rebuild on it. my biggest worry (I think) is not knowing whether it has an iron or plastic governor gear.... whether the Kohler's cast iron block was enough to protect/ shield that from damage?
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Old 11-29-2017, 07:05 PM
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john hall john hall is offline
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Interesting thread, as I have an 1810 that was the source of a fire. Would like to possibly get the engine running and put into something else. That said, I talked with a fellow once that had rebuilt a few burnt combines. Something he told me that was a bit of a surprise (to me anyway), if the engine got hot they would replace the valve springs when they rebuilt the rest of it.
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  #3  
Old 11-29-2017, 07:24 PM
dodge trucker dodge trucker is offline
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yeah the valve spring thing does make sense. depending on how hot it got, and if the engine was the main center of the fire, it will weaken the spring steel.
on my New Holland it originally had a 14hp. I got that machine with the engine in pieces because it smoked, have not had a chance to get it to the machine shop yet. been on the back burner because I had a freshly rebuilt 12hp Magnum sitting here that I threw onto it, even though they did make the same machine as a 12hp, I never liked putting a smaller engine on a machine than original, but it is what I had available.
I broke that 12 in, while being mounted on that machine, it currently has 12 hours on it AT THE MOST!

It runs absolutely great, but again I have a 12hp where a 14 originally was...
if this 16 is salvageable I am thinking of using it on that tractor. other choice is as a ready spare for one of my other ones that has a 16HP on it now.... I will have at least 5 driveways to keep clear this winter. (2 of which are my own)

Would that be 2-hp-itis, going off the original engine's HP, or 4-hp-itis going off of the current engine that's on it?

any more thoughts/concerns on putting this engine into service after having been thru a fire?
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Old 11-29-2017, 07:46 PM
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K-341 engines are popular with the puller crowd here in Ohio. These engines vary in price but are not cheap. If you are going to use the engine, take it apart and rebuild it correctly. You won't regret spending the money to have a great engine. Kits are available and other parts like valve springs, starters, carbs, governor gears and the like are available. It IS a wonderful engine. Do it right! IIRC, the engine blocks in most of the Ariens GT models share the same oil pan/base configuration as Cub Cadet. Share pics of this beast when you get it!
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  #5  
Old 11-29-2017, 07:47 PM
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If the head isn't melted then I doubt the engine got hot enough to damage it, it's probably stuck do to something external.
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Old 11-29-2017, 08:27 PM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
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I've rebuilt several engines that had burned. Like BURNED. Melted the aluminum components on the outside, like the alternator, starter, ect. But that's the point. REBUILT.

I agree with Tim's comment that if the head isn't hurt, then it probably didn't get that hot. To me, it wouldn't matter. I'd rebuilt it. K341 costs a little more to overhaul than the smaller ones, but it still isn't that much. Deltacub is right. Tear it down and rebuild it.

On the point of it being stuck....
Yes, it could be the PTO or something like that. But it could also be carbon from the fire. Hot oil/burnt oil will coke in the bearing, rod and cylinder walls. Bearings could be stuck from the coke. The armature could be stuck to the flywheel, or a number of other things.

Again, I'd just plan on a rebuild.
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:42 PM
dodge trucker dodge trucker is offline
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yeah I was afraid of that.... was hoping to pull it down to a short block, replace gaskets and seals and give it a whirl....

and on the base being the same as the Cubs, I wish. I have 3 of these machines already, and every one has a wide flange base. If it were a narrow base, then I would have an engine for my 1650, that came to me without one. if it was.... that machine is going to donate its ported pump and hyd lift, to my 129. The 1650 is missing a few more pieces than just an engine anyway. I searched for a 16hp Kohler with a Cub cadet base earlier this year, and for something that is supposed to run, I could not touch one for $350..... found a couple of bare blocks for $150. no thanks. by the time I piece one together, after the trip thru the machine shop I can see having $800 in an engine at that rate.... not me.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:19 AM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodge trucker View Post
I could not touch one for $350..... found a couple of bare blocks for $150. no thanks. by the time I piece one together, after the trip thru the machine shop I can see having $800 in an engine at that rate.... not me.
Yeah, because of pullers the 16hp block commands a higher price. Don't get me wrong, I've made money on pullers.... but it frustrates the crap out of me that it drives up the price. Andy they don't care. They would part out an 800 and buy a block/motor from 169 to put in it to make a puller and not think twice. (Not all pullers guys, I'm making a generalization.)


Back to your engine-less 1650....
You do know that the AQS motors use all the same tins, flywheels, housings, linkages and everything, right? So, you can use all but the engine (block, head, crank and carb [carb is different too]) from say a 1250 (12hp engine) and it go on a 16 block. When you say you found bare blocks, I assume you mean completely bare. If you can get a short block with a head, that would help you out.
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Old 11-30-2017, 08:32 AM
dodge trucker dodge trucker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Mech View Post

Back to your engine-less 1650....
You do know that the AQS motors use all the same tins, flywheels, housings, linkages and everything, right? So, you can use all but the engine (block, head, crank and carb [carb is different too]) from say a 1250 (12hp engine) and it go on a 16 block. When you say you found bare blocks, I assume you mean completely bare. If you can get a short block with a head, that would help you out.
yup.... and I have a few K's around here.... and Magnums one 301 that I feel comfortable dropping on to run and go (but that one is a pull start, almost brand new short block) one 301 that needs gone thru, one each K321 and M14 that need teardown and overhaul, and now finally a 341...
thing is none are AQS, they are a plain S suffix except the pull start, it is a T suffix, all have the wide base....I have none with the narrow base like a Cub takes.

I do see a couple of Cub Kohlers on CL for a (more) reasonable price in the last week that are narrow base blocks, but no money right now.

being the overall shape the 1650 is in, and missing what it is, I think it is better served as parts anyhow, at least for my purposes. I tried selling it earlier this year, not a single bite, yet the parts on it that I would be taking for the 129, would cost me way more than I could get for this machine if I had to go find them.... for some reason I like the looks of the 1X8/1x9 better than I like the QL's anyways... things like the ported pump and related pieces for the lift..

on the fire situation, I posted this question 1 other place and had a guy tell me that he had an engine salvaged from something that had been on fire, and he said that after he cleaned it up an replaced all that was obvious, then went to use it on another machine the ACR wasn't working, and he had to replace the cam because as he said it weakened that little ACR spring.
IS that something I could get separate, as when I do go thru the engine, that would most likely be something I would want to replace..... along with the governor gear, (which I know I can get).

just for the He11 of it, I may try and see just "what this motor will do" after I get it cleaned up and swap out any externally noticeable carnage...
right now my Ariens will be my snow rig, (the reason I am buying this burnt out machine, is for the snow blower and weights) so if it will work as such, i'd like to have it as a backup that I can drop onto mine "just in case" then go thru it in the spring after snow season as I really don't need any kind of ride on mower as my yard ain't that big.... I push mow it anyways.
I have 2 driveways and a couple of neighbors that I have to take care of in the winter..... like 4 of them plus my 2 driveways makes 6 driveways....
I have as many machines as I do just because I like playing with them, something that I have done since I was a teenager 20-some years ago.
I have a plow on my other Ariens but you can only push it back so far....
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:03 AM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodge trucker View Post
IS that something I could get separate, as when I do go thru the engine, that would most likely be something I would want to replace..... along with the governor gear, (which I know I can get).
Well.... maybe.

At this point, Kohler has is listed as discontinued. But there are a few places you can still purchase it.

cubcadetpartsnmore still says they have them:
https://www.cubcadetpartsnmore.com/m...actuating.html

That's a new thing. They didn't used to be listed as discontinued. I should try and find a few before you can't...... good part to keep around.
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