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  #1  
Old 04-19-2016, 10:44 AM
jerkin jerkin is offline
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Default 582 woes

Did a little spring maintenance on my 582 (B&S 16hp opposed cylinder) over the weekend and the first time I ran it I had trouble within the first 5 minutes, lol. This tractor has treated me well and doesn't owe me a nickel but it is old and I've known it's needed rebuilt or repowered for some time now, lost some power, burns oil, etc.

Anyways I was chugging along and it lost a good bit of power all of the sudden, I had the parts on hand for a tune up I was going to do so I changed plugs, fuel filter and fuel lines but it didn't change anything. The plug on the right side cylinder was carboned up quite a bit more than the one on the left. I could also smell gas and there is some gas in the oil.

First thing I thought was that I lost a cylinder so I pulled out my ignition tester and both sides are firing. It will actually start on just either cylinder so that's out. I ran a compression test and came up with 85 psi on the left and 70 psi on the right. It's just a harbor freight gauge so those numbers aren't set in stone but definitely a difference between the two.

My next thought was that I have an intake valve not closing on the right side but from the limited information I could find online it seems the valves aren't easily adjustable like other engines I've done where you just adjust the rocker.

Not sure where to go from here. It's not an IH cub as it has the aluminum case on the rearend, no hydraulics and besides the mower the only attachment I have is a junk snowplow. I've heard these Briggs engines aren't worth rebuilding but repowering to a Kohler would be expensive and I don't think the tractor is worth that. I suppose there's a chance that my float could be waterlogged or came out of adjustment causing it to flood out slightly.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 04-19-2016, 12:00 PM
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Sam Mac Sam Mac is offline
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I'd check out the carb based on the info you posted.
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  #3  
Old 04-20-2016, 08:48 AM
jerkin jerkin is offline
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Yeah, I went so far as to find the carb/top end kit local but with those compression numbers being so low and so far apart I just wonder if it's going to do any good. I just hate to put any more time/money into it if the engine is done. I suppose that's my main dilemma, is it worth putting the time and money into or is it just throwing good money after bad at this point? If I could get it running decent again that would be great, give me a few months of mowing while I take my time and look for something else. If not then I should just buy something now and get it over with. Unfortunately all the older Cubs I like in this area seem to go for high dollars, lol.
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  #4  
Old 04-20-2016, 08:55 AM
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I'd clean the fuel system and do the carb. It will probably run as it is for a good while. It may burn some oil so keep an eye on that.
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2264 with 54 GT deck
1641 AKA Black Jack with a 402-E Haban Sickle bar mower
1641 AKA Black Jack #2 with 46" deck
149 with a 1A Tiller
JD330 with 50" deck and 3 point hitch.
JD317 dump truck
BX2660 with FEL & Grassanator
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  #5  
Old 04-20-2016, 08:59 AM
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J-Mech J-Mech is online now
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Fix the carb. Doesn't sound to me like you want to, or have any money to spend anyway. I don't understand why you would consider buying another machine when you could fix the one you have.

Your cylinder numbers aren't that bad. It will last a while longer.

Are you throwing good money at a wore out motor? Maybe. But sounds to me like your debating making a worse decision and going and buying some cheap pos.

FIX YOUR 582.
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"They say money doesn't buy happiness....... but it does buy Cub Cadets, and Cub Cadets make me VERY happy!"

Runners: 1050, 1811, 185LB
On the "back burner": 2-71's, 1250DS, 1000, 582, 682
Deere: 317 with tiller, 318.
Several parts machines, and stacks of motors!
Implements/attachments: (2)Agri-Fab, (3)Brinly, (13)IH/Cub Cadet, (2)Cozy Cabs, (13)homemade/other
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  #6  
Old 04-20-2016, 09:26 AM
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Terry C Terry C is offline
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Like they said fix the one you got enough to get by. In the mean time start
looking for a used engine. It may be not IH but still better than a new box
store mower.
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  #7  
Old 04-20-2016, 12:14 PM
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Leadslingingdaddy Leadslingingdaddy is offline
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Yep you can still find good B/S I/C engines in some Sears Craftsman mowers...Opposed twins...watch CL for them...
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  #8  
Old 04-21-2016, 09:55 AM
jerkin jerkin is offline
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I guess there is one piece of info I left out that I should have mentioned, it has just under 3600 hours on it. My Mom bought it not long after my Dad died, some time 1988 and it had 1600 hours on it then so I'm guessing it was being used commercially. 3,600 is a lot of hours on any engine, let alone a Briggs.

All those hours are what makes me think twice about putting more money into it, everything is loose, the pins that hold the deck up and the holes they go into are all worn, transaxle seems ok but how many hours is that good for? Those kind of things are what make me think about getting another one with fewer hours, I see plenty of old cubs on craigslist with under 1000 hours.

I suppose you guys are right though, I should at least tear the carb down and see if that's what is causing my problem and not blow by or a stuck valve. If that fixes it I would at least have a little more time to look for something I want. Glad to hear those compression numbers aren't bad, I was thinking the worst. Definitely not going to buy a POS though, if I go that route it will be another older Cub. My Mom gave me that 582 when I moved in the house I'm in now back in 2000 and I've never had to do anything to it but keep up with the periodic maintenance other than a couple small things. The clutch rod broke once and I welded that up and put it back on, put a few patches in the deck and one of the pulley's on the deck busted and I welded that back together. That's it in 15 years.

My Father in Law bought a new LT1050 in 2008 and that thing is a POS. Started slipping on hills a few years ago so I yanked the transaxle out of it and changed the fluid, it was already burnt. It's lasted a couple years now but it won't last forever. Now the Kohler in it is burning oil like a smokestack and there's only 250 hours on it.
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  #9  
Old 04-21-2016, 10:28 AM
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Does this thing have a "clock" style hour meter? Or a digit style? I'm seriously doubting those hours. Not that a small engine couldn't last that long, but that Briggs I/C is known to pop valve seats at or around 1000-1500 hours. I've not seen many Kohlers make it to 3K, let alone 3600. I'm thinking that the hour meter is incorrect, or the engine has been replaced, or both. How many acres has this thing mown on average? Sorry to be skeptical, but if your engine is in fact original, and it does have 3600 hours on it, keep running it and when it blows, call Briggs and Stratton and tell them how many hours you have on it.

At this point in the game, I would try and fix it. If it lost power so suddenly, it could have dropped a seat, but not if it will start on both cylinders one at a time. The fuel pump diaphragm may have let go. It is an odd fuel pump, mounted to the carb and vacuum operated.
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"They say money doesn't buy happiness....... but it does buy Cub Cadets, and Cub Cadets make me VERY happy!"

Runners: 1050, 1811, 185LB
On the "back burner": 2-71's, 1250DS, 1000, 582, 682
Deere: 317 with tiller, 318.
Several parts machines, and stacks of motors!
Implements/attachments: (2)Agri-Fab, (3)Brinly, (13)IH/Cub Cadet, (2)Cozy Cabs, (13)homemade/other
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  #10  
Old 04-22-2016, 10:23 AM
jerkin jerkin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Mech View Post
Does this thing have a "clock" style hour meter? Or a digit style? I'm seriously doubting those hours. Not that a small engine couldn't last that long, but that Briggs I/C is known to pop valve seats at or around 1000-1500 hours. I've not seen many Kohlers make it to 3K, let alone 3600. I'm thinking that the hour meter is incorrect, or the engine has been replaced, or both. How many acres has this thing mown on average? Sorry to be skeptical, but if your engine is in fact original, and it does have 3600 hours on it, keep running it and when it blows, call Briggs and Stratton and tell them how many hours you have on it.

At this point in the game, I would try and fix it. If it lost power so suddenly, it could have dropped a seat, but not if it will start on both cylinders one at a time. The fuel pump diaphragm may have let go. It is an odd fuel pump, mounted to the carb and vacuum operated.
Digit style hour meter, like all the other old Cubs I've seen. When I first got it sometime after I moved here in 2000 and started looking it over I thought the engine may have been replaced as I found a couple spliced wires but after talking to my Mom and her new husband they had a dealer pull the engine to put a new clutch and coil in it. I thought maybe the original owner swapped the engine before he sold it to my Mom but that was in 1988 and the date code on the engine matches the tractor, 1982.

I can't swear what was done to it in the first 6 years of it's life but when we bought it in 1988 the hour meter showed 1600 hours and now it's just under 3600 hours on that same motor 28 years later. I suppose the hour meter could be running fast but I doubt it. I don't remember the exact year my Mom gave it to me but it was probably 2002, I only mow about an acre with it but she has 3 acres and mows probably 2 acres every week and mows the field every couple weeks. I also use it to push snow so I'd say those hours are legit or at least close. If I get it running again I'll time it next time I cut, I'd like to know also.

Rebuilt the carb last night but didn't have time to put it back on, maybe later today. Nothing really stuck out at me, the needle valve was one of those types with a rubber tip and that had a bit of a groove in it. The new one from the Briggs kit was all metal. A tip for anyone that reads this and may rebuild one of these carbs later, unless you know the needle seat is bad don't try to replace it, lol. It would be much easier to put it back together with the old seat and see if that fixes your problem. Once I tried to get it out and scored it I had to replace it. Ended up having to drill it out, not fun.

The Briggs kit was awesome, $25 and it came with everything, all the gaskets, new adjustment screws and springs, needle, seat and clip, hinge pin for the float (no float though), it even had all the parts to rebuild the fuel pump, new diaphrams, springs, etc. I have an old John Deere 210 with a single cylinder Kohler engine and you can't even buy the parts for the fuel pump, they want to sell you a whole new pump for $150.
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