Anti-smoking (engine) campaign: 1450

[sawdustdad]

I dropped the block and crank off at the machine shop. He said he needs the valves to do the seats and guides. So I'll have to order them and take them over there. He said the guides seldom wear, but he'll do what ever I want him to do. Help me out here--$334 for two valves, two guides, two seats and two springs? Partstree.com. What's another source? The master rebuild kits on ebay are $110 and include the valves, but not the seats or guides.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by sawdustdad

I dropped the block and crank off at the machine shop. He said he needs the valves to do the seats and guides. So I'll have to order them and take them over there. He said the guides seldom wear, but he'll do what ever I want him to do. Help me out here--$334 for two valves, two guides, two seats and two springs? Partstree.com. What's another source? The master rebuild kits on ebay are $110 and include the valves, but not the seats or guides.

I'm in the middle of a 12HP rebuild. I'm ready to order the kit. I'm getting an E-Bay one. I'm just going to have my shop supply the valve seats. I have no problem with non-OEM parts. Here's the kit I'm getting.... E-Bay They have the guides listed separately for $17.50.

[sawdustdad]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

I'm in the middle of a 12HP rebuild. I'm ready to order the kit. I'm getting an E-Bay one. I'm just going to have my shop supply the valve seats. I have no problem with non-OEM parts. Here's the kit I'm getting.... E-Bay They have the guides listed separately for $17.50.

That's the same kit I was looking at (for the 14 hp of course). Once they bore the cylinder he's supposed to call me with the result (Friday?), and I'll order the kit and take him the valves. I'll ask him if he can get the seats. If not, I'll order them too. Do you routinely replace valve springs? Any reason to do that?

I appreciate your help, Jonathan.

-Frank

[cubby102]

It probably wouldn't hurt to replace the springs I'm sure they have lost a little of their strength over the years

[austin8214]

Not necessary to replace the valve springs unless you really want to. In my opinion. A good three angle valve grind is more important.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by sawdustdad

That's the same kit I was looking at (for the 14 hp of course). Once they bore the cylinder he's supposed to call me with the result (Friday?), and I'll order the kit and take him the valves. I'll ask him if he can get the seats. If not, I'll order them too. Do you routinely replace valve springs? Any reason to do that?

I appreciate your help, Jonathan.

-Frank

On a lot of the other engines I rebuild, I have in recent years been replacing valve springs. But that is only because the engine company I use started offering a kit that included all valve components and they made the price very worthwhile. As far as the Kohlers go, no, unless they are damaged, or been hot, I just use them over. Replacing them is up to you. They are about $12 a piece. No, I don't routinely replace them. If you do decide to replace, save the old. You may have one on another engine break and need one.

[Alvy]

Godd job SDD, I'm doing another 301 as we speak and internals look identical to yours as far as the roached piston and oil consumption, smoke. Your exhaust seat has seen its better days, thanks for sharing the close ups. I'm thinking mine will have to go .020" over on the bore as well by that's to be expected. I'd like to know, if you dont mind, what you're machine shop charges itemized so I can gauge mine since he hasn't told me what it's going to be yet, but boring is going to happen for sure. Keep us posted and hope you "stop smoking" after this. My 123 is trying to quit too, lol

[dvogtvpe]

unless the seat shows damage I don't replace them. I just grind the seats. even if you replace them you still need to grind the new seats so they are eccentric to the guide.
but to echo what the others say this engine lived allot of years so if its rebuilt properly there's no reason you can't get just as many back out of it if cared for properly.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by dvogtvpe

unless the seat shows damage I don't replace them. I just grind the seats. even if you replace them you still need to grind the new seats so they are eccentric to the guide.
but to echo what the others say this engine lived allot of years so if its rebuilt properly there's no reason you can't get just as many back out of it if cared for properly.

Don, have you ever had trouble with them getting too low? I wasn't sure if they would be able to face them enough without the valve getting too low. They look pretty low. Or do you just face the stem off in that situation?

[dvogtvpe]

only time I've run into it is if its had several valve jobs or the seat is really messed up. the majority of the time a couple taps with the seat grinder is all it takes to bring them back. I then use a 15 deg. stone to move the interference point to where it comes out in the middle of the seat on the valve. you already know but for others the closer the interference point is to the edge of the valve the greater the chance of burning the valve . when I refer to interference point if you grind the seat to a 45 deg angle you then come back with a 15 deg stone and the point that the 45 and the 15 meet is the interference point. when you install the valve and check where the interference point meet on the valve face you want it to be near the center of the face. you can use grease or bluing to check this or simply use a little lapping compound. if you want a 3 angle then you add a 60 deg, 70 deg or whatever you think will work best below the 45. so as an example you could use 80 - 45 - 15 . that's not what I would use but I'm not about to say what I would use.
but, back to the original question. you also measure from the fire deck to the top of the valve to make sure the valve is not dropping to far in. if it is then a new seat would be required. the only things that I could really think of that would be affected would be valve spring seat tension and possibly some flow. from what I can remember I don't believe Kohler has a spec for that on the flat heads.