Fall overseeding

[j4c11]

I'm starting to get my 1450 ready for the fall when I will need to overseed the lawn. My front lawn gets about 10-12 hours of full sun and with water at $10/768 gallons here, watering is not something that can be done too often, so by the time fall comes the lawn looks a little tired. Got a hold of a 3 pt aerator and a walk-behind dethatcher/verticutter so I'm ready to go equipment wise. Still undecided between Lesco and Bullseye tall fescue seed, might spend the extra dollars and go with the Bullseye since it's the top performer in my area in NTEP tests. The thing that puzzles me, is the correct procedure for overseeding. I have been reading forum after forum, page after page, and advice is plentiful for contradictory:

- Dethatch first to increase the change of seed to soil contact.
- Don't dethatch, it's not recommended or needed for tall fescue.
- Dethatch then aerate then seed so the seeds can go in the holes.
- Aerate then seed then dethatch to break up the plugs.
- Seed first then aerate and dethatch.
- Fertilize at the same time you put down the seed.
- Never fertilize at the same time as putting down the seed, wait until the new grass starts to come out.
etc. etc.

I finally found the North Carolina Cooperative Extension site, where you can "ask and expert". Great I thought, let me get some advice from the pros. Some lady answered me and said to till the whole lawn . I may have some dry spots but that's hardly necessary. So what do you all do when it's time to overseed?

[J-Mech]

I'm going to give you my opinion. This is based on years of farming, and also from my experience seeding grass. But, I'm afraid I'm just going to be just another opinion.

1.) NEVER fertilize and seed at the same time. The fertilizer can kill the germination of the seed. Always wait till grass is growing to fertilize. (I suggest in the spring.)
2.) I don't de-thatch.....ever. I think it's a waste of time if you are going to core it. Or if you aerate.

I'd mow it short and sweep the lawn. (No clippings to inhibit the core aerator.) Then core it. Then seed it. (Because for whatever reason, seed seems to grow better in the ground.) The next step is choice, I think any of the following is ok: Either use a dethatcher to "scuff" the dirt/cores to cover the seed. Or you could use a spike aerator. Or, use a lawn roller. No matter what, end with rolling it with a lawn roller. Doesn't have to be heavy, just something to firm the seed bed. Plus, it will help break up the left over cores. Then water it everyday. I don't know what kind of soil you have, but I use a grass seed blend from my local (farm) seed store. It's a blend of fescue grasses, rye grass and Kentucky Bluegrass. It does very well because the seed that grows best in the different soil/sunlight/shade/dry areas thrives, and the other grasses die off. That way, you get a uniform looking coverage, and don't have to seed differently. I pay about $150 a bag for the seed.

That's my take on it!

[nikster]

A farmer I am not, nor a expert on lawn seeding. Soooooooooooooo,

IMO. Only

I was told years ago that de-thatching is good for a lawn in the spring & fall & then mow the snot out of it. This helps a established lawn catch a breath of fresh air from the compacted clippings that accumulate from all the cutting one does.

I de-thatch my lawn this way & seems good. So I do it. When I 1st., started doing this the thatch if picked up would fill the cart 2x's.. That's a lot of compacted clippings. If anything this gives me more seat time & gives my feeble mind a feeling of doing something good & helping my lawn.

I would think that seeding would benefit a lawn better in the spring to promote new growth rather than fall? Why would one drop seed & just let it set all winter? Breaking up the soil somewhat & then seeding in the spring with some natural wetness would be better?

Like I said I'm no expert but.........?

NIK,

[j4c11]

Originally Posted by nikster

I would think that seeding would benefit a lawn better in the spring to promote new growth rather than fall? Why would one drop seed & just let it set all winter? Breaking up the soil somewhat & then seeding in the spring with some natural wetness would be better?

Like I said I'm no expert but.........?

NIK,

Thanks Nik. I think the reason overseeding is done mid-september rather than spring is to allow the grass a few good months of growth and root development before the summer heat hits. It's worth mentioning that tall fescue as a cool season grass actually continues to develop it's root system through the winter. Or so I've heard

Originally Posted by J-Mech

I'd mow it short and sweep the lawn. (No clippings to inhibit the core aerator.) Then core it. Then seed it. (Because for whatever reason, seed seems to grow better in the ground.)

I think one of the biggest complaints I've seen with core aerating before seeding is that a bunch of seeds tend to go in the hole and then the grass grows in clumps. Is that something you've seen happen using this method or is it mostly FUD?

I'd like to mix some KBG with tall fescue, just not sure if it would survive the summer on just rain...

[Berwil]

Originally Posted by j4c11

Thanks Nik. I think the reason overseeding is done mid-september rather than spring is to allow the grass a few good months of growth and root development before the summer heat hits. It's worth mentioning that tall fescue as a cool season grass actually continues to develop it's root system through the winter. Or so I've heard

X2

Originally Posted by j4c11

I think one of the biggest complaints I've seen with core aerating before seeding is that a bunch of seeds tend to go in the hole and then the grass grows in clumps. Is that something you've seen happen using this method or is it mostly FUD?

I believe that can happen. It's been a while since I worked at the golf course during high school breaks, but I think after aerating they would slit seed to get more uniform growth.

Bill

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by nikster

I would think that seeding would benefit a lawn better in the spring to promote new growth rather than fall? Why would one drop seed & just let it set all winter? Breaking up the soil somewhat & then seeding in the spring with some natural wetness would be better?

It's kind of like winter wheat Nik. Seed in the fall, seeds germinate, but don't grow much. (Like j4c11 said, root development.) Then, in the spring, it comes to life and grows up with the rest of the grass. If you wait till spring, then you will have to be on the new seed mowing while the new is trying to grow. It can be done in the spring, but I prefer to overseed in the fall. Reseeding can be done in either the fall or spring.

Originally Posted by j4c11

I think one of the biggest complaints I've seen with core aerating before seeding is that a bunch of seeds tend to go in the hole and then the grass grows in clumps. Is that something you've seen happen using this method or is it mostly FUD?

I'd like to mix some KBG with tall fescue, just not sure if it would survive the summer on just rain...

That's why I run something else over after seeding, like a spike aerator. I haven't ever tried a dethatcher because I was always afraid it would leave "lines" where there was no grass. I think the key is the roller. Firms the seed into the soil, even if it isn't covered. Then, when it rains or during watering, less chance it washes into the holes. As long as you have the seeder set right, and firm it in, it shouldn't collect in the holes.

This is what you really need. I'm wanting to build a smaller version. It is for reseeding, or overseeding.

LP seeder.jpg

[yeeter]

I dont dethach unless there is high thatch buildup (my current lawn doesnt have much thatch buildup at all). But now that I think about it I dont think I would dethach, since you are going to aerate or slit or some other such method.

Getting the seed in firm contact with the soil is key to germinating. And it has to be kept moist during this time. So for me in the Northeast, starting too late in the Fall doesnt give it enough time to get going before Winter (and early/late summer is too big a risk of not enough water/rain, unless sprinklers are used).

I have had good luck with the slitters to churn the soil up a bit and give a place for the seed to wash into the soil. I dont roll it though (would, and think its a good idea, but just dont have a roller). The slitter (ran in crossing diagonal pattern) cuts small rows for the seed to get down into and then the rain washes the loose soil over it.

Seed on the surface is a complete waste. Any spots that you cant get into the soil I like mulching over with peat moss, it holds the moisture in well.

I wouldnt use fertilizer. And definitely do not use a weed and feed, since these suppress germination.

[CADplans]

These methods are VERY
regional
and
seasonal

My first lawn was in Massachusetts, and I thought I knew EVERYTHING about lawncare, the cool evenings REALLY promoted grass growth,,,

I moved to Virginia, and found I could not grow grass!!

The peroids of heat, and dry conditions of Virginia, as well as sand, makes it difficult to grow grass.

In Virginia, I never dethatch, the thatch decays faster than I can grow grass.

In Virginia, SUPER tall grass promotes grass growth, because the tall grass shades the soil.

In Virginia, only spring and fall seeding is possible, the seed will rot before it can sprout in the summer,,,

I could seed in a snow storm in the winter and get better germination than in July or August.

Actually, seeding just before a snow storm is a pretty good time to seed, it packs the seed tight against the soil....

Oh, yea, the tilling,,, do it this time of the year, and you will be lucky to get a few weeds to sprout,,,, before September!!

Anybody got the PH# of a good sod farm!!??

[j4c11]

Originally Posted by CADplans

The peroids of heat, and dry conditions of Virginia, as well as sand, makes it difficult to grow grass.

I think the conditions here in Greensboro are similar to VA , sandy soil and hot summers. All my fescue went dormant, it's in direct sun at temperatures between 90-100 degrees and on a 20 degree slope. Now I wish I hadn't sprayed weed killer in the spring, the weeds have no problem staying green.

I've done some more research on the Craftsman "dethatcher" I bought a while back. It is made my MTD and was sold for a short period under the Craftsman brand. The blades look exactly like this:



Tried to look up the blades by the part number on eBay, only to find that MTD is selling this machine all over Europe as a verticutter rather than a dethatcher. Took it out to the back to try it out, it completely destroyed the existing grass, the final result looked something like this:




Definitely get plenty of seed to soil contact, but I'm not sure the existing grass will survive. Kind of skeptical of using it now.

[Sam Mac]

Good thread, I'm learning a lot from you guys. Lets just say my lawn is challenged. I can kill it fast but getting it to grow is an issue.