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  #1  
Old 11-29-2017, 04:40 PM
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ironman ironman is offline
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Default Calling all K161 gurus - I need help

This is long winded, please bear with me....

Earlier this summer I was given this Model 70. I decided as a winter project to restore it back to reasonably good shape. I have it completely torn down now and have been contemplating what direction I was going to take with the motor, which started and ran quite well with no smoke but was in need of head gasket.

The tractor serial number is 120792 which tells me it is from 1965. The motor model number has been rubbed off the tag but the spec and serial numbers are readable and are spec 281033, s/n A65631 which tell me it is a K161 from 1965. So I am reasonably confident it is the original motor.

I pulled the head to I check the cylinder and valves and everything is in beautiful shape, nothing burnt, no scoring, not even a ridge. I decided that the route I would take with the motor would be to refresh it with just a hone job, new rings, seals and gaskets. Oh, and by the way, the piston head was stamped with “.010” so obviously this thing has been rebuilt in the past. Still, no big deal, but here is where the plot thickens.

One of the Kohler Service Manuals I have says that the K161’s with a spec number of 281161 and earlier have a standard a bore of 2 7/8” (2.875). Spec 281162 and later have a standard bore of 2 15/16 ” (2.937). Since my spec of 281033 is below 281161, my original bore should have been 2.875 and if bored .010 should now be 2.885 or there about, am I correct??

I do not have an inside micrometer but I do have a digital caliper which can measure inside diameters. When I measure my cylinder I get readings between 2.875 and 2.878. When I measure my piston across the thrust face I get readings of 2.871 to 2.875. I am not a machinist and I know my tools and skills for this are lacking but it seems to me that if my piston is marked 10 thousandths oversize, then shouldn’t I be seeing readings larger than what I am??

Actually my dilemma is that I don’t know what size rings to buy. Can anyone give me some guidance of am I completely out in left field??
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  #2  
Old 11-29-2017, 04:49 PM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
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I'd say your calipers are off.

Good luck finding .010" oversize rings though. They (no one) makes them for that motor anymore. Last I knew NAPA could get them in standard...... for about the same price as a bore job. I always just bore them to the new size.
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  #3  
Old 11-29-2017, 05:33 PM
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darkminion_17 darkminion_17 is offline
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Originally Posted by J-Mech View Post
I'd say your calipers are off.

Good luck finding .010" oversize rings though. They (no one) makes them for that motor anymore. Last I knew NAPA could get them in standard...... for about the same price as a bore job. I always just bore them to the new size.

I do believe the darkminion has a set.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/232528177839
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:01 PM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
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I do believe the darkminion has a set.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/232528177839

Yep, that's how much NAPA wanted for theirs too. Bore job and a new piston for the larger size was cheaper. Matter of fact, the bore job and complete overhaul kit was only about $25 more.
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:08 PM
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Yep, that's how much NAPA wanted for theirs too. Bore job and a new piston for the larger size was cheaper. Matter of fact, the bore job and complete overhaul kit was only about $25 more.
As Duke would say, "Lew's gotta eat", but I can do betterer on the price for the iron man.
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:57 PM
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Well good luck to ya...but why not bore it properly? Cutting the glaze will help but a 52 yr old engine bore has gotta have some significant wear! The crankpin may be in spec but you should check it too. Kohler only allows a half thousandth out of round.
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Old 11-29-2017, 07:14 PM
dodge trucker dodge trucker is offline
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well if it is already "10-over", think there is a possibility it doesn't have many hours on the rebuild? get it apart and measure the cylinder and see... take to machine shop unless you have access to a cylinder taper gauge.
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by J-Mech View Post
I'd say your calipers are off.
You are probably right, although I hadn't run across any problems before. I was just looking for ballpark numbers but this seems too extreme.

Good luck finding .010" oversize rings though. They (no one) makes them for that motor anymore. Last I knew NAPA could get them in standard...... for about the same price as a bore job. I always just bore them to the new size.
I've located a couple internet sources for +10 rings, in the $35 range. Buying them and being wrong is what I am trying to avoid, thus the measuring and questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Mech View Post
Yep, that's how much NAPA wanted for theirs too. Bore job and a new piston for the larger size was cheaper. Matter of fact, the bore job and complete overhaul kit was only about $25 more.
I figured between rings and a gasket/seal set I would have $50 to $75 invested. If I could go the whole nine yards for $25 extra I would be more than happy but I'm not too optimistic on that.

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Well good luck to ya...but why not bore it properly? Cutting the glaze will help but a 52 yr old engine bore has gotta have some significant wear! The crankpin may be in spec but you should check it too. Kohler only allows a half thousandth out of round.
On your note, I just took a look at, and measured the crank pin. The pin and the rod, appear to be in excellent condition. The book I have calls for a new crank to be 1.1860 to 1.1855, with max wear limit of 1.1850. Mine measures, with a micrometer, 1.185 so I am right at the limit but not over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodge trucker View Post
well if it is already "10-over", think there is a possibility it doesn't have many hours on the rebuild? get it apart and measure the cylinder and see... take to machine shop unless you have access to a cylinder taper gauge.
.
I agree, as I stated above, except for the head gasket (which was only leaking, not blown) this engine ran quite well. Internally it looks in very good shape so I don't think it had a whole lot of time on it since last rebuild. Finding a machine shop, within reason, around me that caters to messing with small engine work is like locating King Tut's tomb room in the pyramid. All the shops I have contacted only want to do high volume or specialty work. As with most of the business's we grew up with, all the neighborly Mom/Pop places have retired or died and their doors are closed, probably never to re-open.

Thanks to all for your inputs. I guess I'm just gonna wing it and get the +10 rings and see how it fits up.
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:23 AM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
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Honestly Ironman, I would just re-gasket it and leave it alone. From what you describe, there is no advantage to doing a ring job. If you aren't going to overhaul it completely, you are just wasting money.

The crankpin may be at the min wear limit, but why would you rebuild a motor with parts that are at the max wear limit? That only makes the life of the "new" motor very short.

Again.... I'd just leave it alone. Gasket it and go on your way. It will run a long time the way it is. From your description, it isn't broke, so why "fix" it?
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:16 AM
dodge trucker dodge trucker is offline
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I have my own mic's and have had for years. Largely because of what you say about machine shops being so few and far between these days I wound up buying a bore gauge earlier this year, I looked around for a while and got a good deal on one from eBay, that will tell you alot though you need an outside mic compatible with the size of the bore to set the gauge up initially. No big deal that takes all of about a minute.
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