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  #11  
Old 11-30-2017, 10:22 AM
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ironman ironman is offline
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Originally Posted by J-Mech View Post
Honestly Ironman, I would just re-gasket it and leave it alone. From what you describe, there is no advantage to doing a ring job. If you aren't going to overhaul it completely, you are just wasting money.

The crankpin may be at the min wear limit, but why would you rebuild a motor with parts that are at the max wear limit? That only makes the life of the "new" motor very short.

Again.... I'd just leave it alone. Gasket it and go on your way. It will run a long time the way it is. From your description, it isn't broke, so why "fix" it?
I would like to go the route you suggest, but since I have already pulled the piston am I "safe" to re-install it with the old rings?? The service manual says "never reuse old rings" but it doesn't elaborate as to whether that is with a new bore, a hone job, or just re-assembling. I have never re-used the old ones in the past so I have no experience there. Will the old ones re-seat themselves??
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  #12  
Old 11-30-2017, 11:07 AM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
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Oh, I didn't realize you pulled the piston.

Well.... that's a tough question. No, you should not pull a piston and put it back in without new rings. That said, if the bore is good, it might be ok. Doesn't sound like the engine has tons of hours on it.

See, the issue is the rings will have conformed to the bore. But a new set of rings will have to do the same. There is only one type of hone you can use that makes a perfect bore, but they are very expensive and no one owns them. You can't rent them either. Shoot, even I don't have one. I have a friend who does, so I borrow his.

I don't know what I would do, but I'm going to recommend you run a rake hone through it, and use the old rings. Probably 6 to 1, half a dozen the other to keep the old rings or replace them. I explain the difference in hones here:
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=31930

In the future, don't pull a piston out unless you intend to bore it. If you want to check the crank pin, just unbolt the cap.
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  #13  
Old 11-30-2017, 01:24 PM
Merk Merk is offline
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Is this tractor going to be a worker or a trailer queen?

Did you check the bore diameter in 6 place like the Kohler book says?
Odds are the measurements are not the same. A hone won't fix that. You need to use a inside mike to get a true cylinder bore measurement.

There is a good chance that the cylinder bore will be over spec when you are done honing it.

If it was my 70 I would have rebuild the carb, new plugs, points and condenser, new head gasket and head bolts. I would double check to make sure the head and block are flat.

My IH Cub Cadet 70 engine was the small bore cylinder before it was rebuilt. I had problems finding a small bore piston. The engine was bored to a large bore piston 8 years ago. My 70 is a worker/trailer queen.....All my IH Cub Cadets have to earn their keep.

I would spend a few extra bucks now and do a major rebuild on the engine since you have it apart. It will last the rest of your lifetime if you do. I had several owners who went the ring replacement route.......2-3 years later they had to have motor rebuild again.

Your money your choice.
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  #14  
Old 11-30-2017, 02:49 PM
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ironman ironman is offline
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Originally Posted by J-Mech View Post
Oh, I didn't realize you pulled the piston.

Well.... that's a tough question. No, you should not pull a piston and put it back in without new rings. That said, if the bore is good, it might be ok. Doesn't sound like the engine has tons of hours on it.

See, the issue is the rings will have conformed to the bore. But a new set of rings will have to do the same. There is only one type of hone you can use that makes a perfect bore, but they are very expensive and no one owns them. You can't rent them either. Shoot, even I don't have one. I have a friend who does, so I borrow his.

I don't know what I would do, but I'm going to recommend you run a rake hone through it, and use the old rings. Probably 6 to 1, half a dozen the other to keep the old rings or replace them. I explain the difference in hones here:
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=31930

In the future, don't pull a piston out unless you intend to bore it. If you want to check the crank pin, just unbolt the cap.
EXCELLENT Job on the hone tutorial. I didn't know it was there, thanks for the link.

Yea, I'm kicking myself now for pulling the piston but I didn't think I'd be in this situation. No matter what, I will not be getting it re-bored because like I explained above, small job machine shops are scarce. I don't have time to do it right now but I am going to remove the top ring and measure the end gap. The book says max is .027 so if I'm close to that I'll get the new rings.
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  #15  
Old 11-30-2017, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Merk View Post
Is this tractor going to be a worker or a trailer queen?

Did you check the bore diameter in 6 place like the Kohler book says?
Odds are the measurements are not the same. A hone won't fix that. You need to use a inside mike to get a true cylinder bore measurement.

There is a good chance that the cylinder bore will be over spec when you are done honing it.

If it was my 70 I would have rebuild the carb, new plugs, points and condenser, new head gasket and head bolts. I would double check to make sure the head and block are flat.

My IH Cub Cadet 70 engine was the small bore cylinder before it was rebuilt. I had problems finding a small bore piston. The engine was bored to a large bore piston 8 years ago. My 70 is a worker/trailer queen.....All my IH Cub Cadets have to earn their keep.

I would spend a few extra bucks now and do a major rebuild on the engine since you have it apart. It will last the rest of your lifetime if you do. I had several owners who went the ring replacement route.......2-3 years later they had to have motor rebuild again.

Your money your choice.
Somewhere in between. This tractor was not all cobbled up so my plan is to to tear it completely down and re-do what needs re-done, fix everything that needs fixed, and make it look half decent. Any work will be light duty as I have enough other tractors for that.

Yes, all the things you mentioned will be gone over, and more. No parts will go untouched, no worn parts re-used.

I'm not trying to take the cheap road on this engine, but like Jon said above "If it ain't broke......", and like I said above, maybe there is a small engine machinist around the corner from me and I just havn't discovered him yet but I'm still lookin'.
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  #16  
Old 11-30-2017, 05:33 PM
dodge trucker dodge trucker is offline
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How does the piston look? Any scoring or scraping?
Any gouges? If so I would look for another piston.

As far as reusing the rings BE CAREFUL removing them, you crack them you're done. Then you have no choice but to replace them. But, being as how those rings we're worn to that exact cylinder if the end gap is ok, you "might" be ok to reuse them, might. But it is the same amount of work to rebuild it right and know that it's right than to reassemble and hope it is.

If you assemble it and it doesn't work out you get the experience of doing it over.
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  #17  
Old 11-30-2017, 11:53 PM
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johncub7172 johncub7172 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironman View Post
Somewhere in between. This tractor was not all cobbled up so my plan is to to tear it completely down and re-do what needs re-done, fix everything that needs fixed, and make it look half decent. Any work will be light duty as I have enough other tractors for that.

Yes, all the things you mentioned will be gone over, and more. No parts will go untouched, no worn parts re-used.

I'm not trying to take the cheap road on this engine, but like Jon said above "If it ain't broke......", and like I said above, maybe there is a small engine machinist around the corner from me and I just havn't discovered him yet but I'm still lookin'.
I had a k241 that was worn, but still would mow the west 40. So, before the engine "broke", I had a complete rebuild. Money well spent.
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  #18  
Old 12-01-2017, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dodge trucker View Post
How does the piston look? Any scoring or scraping?
Any gouges? If so I would look for another piston.

As far as reusing the rings BE CAREFUL removing them, you crack them you're done. Then you have no choice but to replace them. But, being as how those rings we're worn to that exact cylinder if the end gap is ok, you "might" be ok to reuse them, might. But it is the same amount of work to rebuild it right and know that it's right than to reassemble and hope it is.

If you assemble it and it doesn't work out you get the experience of doing it over.
Other than some carbon bruising on the top and a little carbon behind the rings, the rest of the piston is in good shape. I got a chance to check the end gap. I only did the top ring and I'm reading about .035, way more than the max of .027 that the book calls for. So new rings can't do any harm.

I've decided to hone it, and ring it, and wing it.
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  #19  
Old 12-01-2017, 12:48 PM
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ironman ironman is offline
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Originally Posted by johncub7172 View Post
I had a k241 that was worn, but still would mow the west 40. So, before the engine "broke", I had a complete rebuild. Money well spent.
Before this little guy does any mowing I will have to find a mower deck for him, but even then he won't be doing any "40".

Thanks to y'all for trying to help me. I'll try to progress on this through the winter and update this thread with the outcome when I get it all back together in the spring. Happy Holidays.
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