Only Cub Cadets

PLEASE PATRONIZE OUR SPONSORS!

CC Speciaalties R. F. Houtz and Sons

Patton Acres IH Cub Cadet Parts

Cub Cadet Parts & Service


If you would like to help maintain this site & enhance it, feel free to donate whatever amount you would like to!




Attention Folks we have a new owner!
Greg Rozar AKA- CubDieselFan


Go Back   Only Cub Cadets > Cub Cadets > Cub Cadet Engines > Kohler Engines

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-28-2018, 01:04 PM
Boomer Boomer is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: PA
Posts: 7
Default 2166 High Voltage

Hi,
I have a Cub Cadet 2166 (13A-254G100) with a Kohler Command OHV 16.0HP Model #CH16S and I wonder if anyone can help me figure out why my charging system seems to be generating to much voltage. I’m on my 3rd PTO clutch and the only thing I can figure out is that the voltage going to the PTO (14.5 DCV) is burning them out. The other problem is blowing the 25A main power fuse on a regular basis which is probably because of the same issue.

I have tested and replaced the battery, regulator-rectifier, relays, and PTO switch. None of these components tested poorly, but I am desperate, so I swapped them out. I have cleaned and tested every connection I can find and have good ground on every connection. I have not replaced the stator because it is putting out 39.5 ACv when the engine is running at full throttle which seems to be in-spec. I also have not touched the Spark Advance Module because I don’t know anything about how it might contribute to this problem.

I put together the attached diagram showing what the readings are in various places in the harness and would appreciate if anyone has an idea as to what I can do to bring the voltage down.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Cub 2166 Wiring Tests.jpg (22.5 KB, 161 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-28-2018, 05:19 PM
Boomer Boomer is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: PA
Posts: 7
Default

Here is a .pdf that has enough resolution to read.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Cub 2166 Wiring Tests.pdf (91.6 KB, 17 views)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-29-2018, 09:46 AM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Oblong, Illinois
Posts: 17,594
Default

14.5 volts DC is within spec. You don't have a voltage problem.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-29-2018, 12:46 PM
Boomer Boomer is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: PA
Posts: 7
Default

I hope you’re right. Xtreme is adamant about having below 14v shown here and @ 1:45 in this video. After 3 of those PTO’s (don’t know why I went back to them) I just installed this one hoping it will last longer. I did find a note saying the original equipment was designed for a 13v-14v operating range a few years ago but can’t find it now, and I can’t find any electrical information for these PTO’s online. I even called the company I bought the new one from and they don’t have it.

Are the Xtreme PTO's junk? Do you think the new one will last running at 14.5V?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-29-2018, 12:54 PM
R Bedell R Bedell is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13,693
Default

(A) Check and make sure the V/R is properly ground. With a DVM, measure the resistance between the V/R case and the Battery Negative Terminal. There should be zero ohms resistance.

(B) If 39.0 VAC is the input to the V/R, and is considered acceptable by Kohler/Cub Cadet's specifications, then the V/R itself sounds like it is bad.
__________________
Roland Bedell

CC Models: 100, 105, 1450, 782, (2) 784, & 2072

Buy: Made in the USA
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-29-2018, 02:55 PM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Oblong, Illinois
Posts: 17,594
Default

I think xtreme makes a great product. They are the unofficial recommended replacement for PTO's on this site.

I think you have a different problem.
I'm willing to bet that you have a poor connection somewhere that is causing an issue. 14.5V on the charging system itself has nothing to do with the 25A fuse blowing. 25 amp is 25 amp. Doesn't matter if the voltage is 12 or 14.5, that fuse will only blow if a load larger than 25 amp is on that circuit. Now, if there is a short, or a poor connection, or a failing component, that can blow the fuse. I'm betting the PTO is getting less than 12v and that's why it keeps failing. Unfortunately, you have to be the one to test and find the source of the issue. Follow the wiring diagram and start from the beginning.

One more thing....If you are measuring the voltage at the PTO by unplugging the connector and testing, that doesn't account for the load. Plug the PTO in, and back probe the connection to see what it reads with the PTO on. I suggest taking the belt off while testing. Better if the engine is running WOT for the test so that you get a max power reading. Either way..... 0.5V over 14v is not likely to be causing an issue. 14.5V is an acceptable charge voltage. However, 39V AC sounds high from the stator. How fast is your engine running at WOT?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-29-2018, 05:35 PM
Boomer Boomer is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: PA
Posts: 7
Default

Thanks for the suggestions. Here is what I'm reading to do.
  • Recheck ground on regulator rectifier
  • Verify input voltage on rectifier regulator is within spec
  • Recheck all wires for a short
  • Back probe test the PTO on while it is running.
  • Determine how fast engine is running at wide open throttle

I found a few more clues in the Kohler service manual to test the stator and regulator rectifier so I'll run all these tests and report back. It looks like I need to get a small engine tach as well.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-29-2018, 05:45 PM
Alvy's Avatar
Alvy Alvy is offline
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Winter Haven, FL
Posts: 3,562
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Mech View Post
I think xtreme makes a great product. They are the unofficial recommended replacement for PTO's on this site.

I think you have a different problem.
I'm willing to bet that you have a poor connection somewhere that is causing an issue. 14.5V on the charging system itself has nothing to do with the 25A fuse blowing. 25 amp is 25 amp. Doesn't matter if the voltage is 12 or 14.5, that fuse will only blow if a load larger than 25 amp is on that circuit. Now, if there is a short, or a poor connection, or a failing component, that can blow the fuse. I'm betting the PTO is getting less than 12v and that's why it keeps failing. Unfortunately, you have to be the one to test and find the source of the issue. Follow the wiring diagram and start from the beginning.

One more thing....If you are measuring the voltage at the PTO by unplugging the connector and testing, that doesn't account for the load. Plug the PTO in, and back probe the connection to see what it reads with the PTO on. I suggest taking the belt off while testing. Better if the engine is running WOT for the test so that you get a max power reading. Either way..... 0.5V over 14v is not likely to be causing an issue. 14.5V is an acceptable charge voltage. However, 39V AC sounds high from the stator. How fast is your engine running at WOT?
Agreed. Amps is what blows fuses and that’s a big draw if over 25. 14.7 or less is acceptable charge voltage and manual states stator AC output of 28 volts or more is acceptable but 39 does seem high to me as well. I have a dc amp clamp to measure dc amps and figure out draws like this. They do make the circuit breaker type resettable fuses for troubleshooting in different amp configurations.
__________________
(2) Original, 100, 102, 124, 73, 800, #1 and #2 cart, brinly plows, disk, IH184, IH244, 1948 F Cub
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-29-2018, 05:46 PM
R Bedell R Bedell is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13,693
Default

Here is the research that I have done.

The 2166 rolled out of the Factory with a Kohler CH16-45509 Engine.

That engine uses KH-237878 Stator. That stator was used in numerous models of Kohler Engines. The specification on that Stator is located here.... Specification

Thus "normal" input to the V/R should be 28-30 VAC with a typical output of 13.7VDC and a "maximum output" of 14.7 VDC.

This is what this tractor should be performing.
__________________
Roland Bedell

CC Models: 100, 105, 1450, 782, (2) 784, & 2072

Buy: Made in the USA
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-29-2018, 05:50 PM
Alvy's Avatar
Alvy Alvy is offline
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Winter Haven, FL
Posts: 3,562
Default

What we said
__________________
(2) Original, 100, 102, 124, 73, 800, #1 and #2 cart, brinly plows, disk, IH184, IH244, 1948 F Cub
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Cub Cadet is a premium line of outdoor power equipment, established in 1961 as part of International Harvester. During the 1960s, IH initiated an entirely new line of lawn and garden equipment aimed at the owners rural homes with large yards and private gardens. There were a wide variety of Cub Cadet branded and after-market attachments available; including mowers, blades, snow blowers, front loaders, plows, carts, etc. Cub Cadet advertising at that time harped on their thorough testing by "boys - acknowledged by many as the world's worst destructive force!". Cub Cadets became known for their dependability and rugged construction.

MTD Products, Inc. of Cleveland, Ohio purchased the Cub Cadet brand from International Harvester in 1981. Cub Cadet was held as a wholly owned subsidiary for many years following this acquisition, which allowed them to operate independently. Recently, MTD has taken a more aggressive role and integrated Cub Cadet into its other lines of power equipment.

This website and forum are not affiliated with or sponsored by MTD Products Inc, which owns the CUB CADET trademarks. It is not an official MTD Products Inc, website, and MTD Products Inc, is not responsible for any of its content. The official MTD Products Inc, website can be found at: http://www.mtdproducts.com. The information and opinions expressed on this website are the responsibility of the website's owner and/or it's members, and do not represent the opinions of MTD Products Inc. IH, INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER are registered trademark of CNH America LLC

All material, images, and graphics from this site are the property of www.onlycubcadets.net. Any unauthorized use, reproductions, or duplications are prohibited unless solely expressed in writing.

Cub Cadet, Cub, Cadet, IH, MTD, Parts, Tractors, Tractor, International Harvester, Lawn, Garden, Lawn Mower, Kohler, garden tractor equipment, lawn garden tractors, antique garden tractors, garden tractor, PTO, parts, online, Original, 70, 71, 72, 73, 76, SO76, 80, 81, 86, 100, 102, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108,109, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 147, 149, 169, 182, 282, 382, 482, 580, 582, 582 Special, 680, 682, 782, 782D, 784, 800, 805, 882, 982, 984, 986, 1000, 1015, 1100, 1105, 1110, 1200, 1250, 1282, 1450, 1512, 1604, 1605, 1606, 1610, 1615, 1620, 1650, 1710, 1711, 1712, 1806, 1810, 1811, 1812, 1912, 1914.