No Fire To Spark Plug 149 Cub Cadet

[john hall]

How did you know the tab was broken off, or did you break it trying to bend it to get more lift. I've never been able to do that, they always break. If you don't have a working ACR, I'm leaning towards Jmechs thinking of its not spinning through compression fast enough to crank---at least I think that's what he is thinking. Silly idea, but if your ACR is broken and your battery is weak/small..... Of course this is assuming everything you had apart has been reassembled properly.

[vr4Legacy]

Originally Posted by sawdustdad

I think pos to neg terminals on the coil should register about 4-5 ohms. I think the coil is fine.

I was referencing + to tower as seen here.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...highlight=coil

That post says 7k - 12k. The manual lists 11,500 as the proper reading.

If he got 7.4 set on 20k, then he has 7400 ohms, which is on the low side.

However, now that he mentions he has spark, I'd move onto the next thing, if he doesn't have a spare coil lying around.

[Mr Bob]

Only a couple possibilities left:
*The fuel is bad. (You don't say anywhere how long ago it was running.)
*You flooded it and just need to pull the plug out, crank the engine to dry the cylinder some. (If you do that make sure the spark plug wire is far away from the spark plug hole, and also not near the carb. Might have fire where you don't want it.)
*Timing is not correctly set
*Something you took apart didn't get installed correctly.

Couple things I want to point out that makes me somewhat skeptical:
You stated in post 1 that you took the engine apart to retrieve a broken ACR tab. You do not say you fixed or replaced the cam. I find it surprising that your starter can crank the engine if the ACR is not working. 14hp is big motor.
Second, you stated that you had 98lbs compression. If the ACR was working, you shouldn't have that much, AND that's pretty high compression for that starter. If this engine cranks, I'm skeptical of that number.
Third, you stated you did a leak down test, but you don't know if the gauge you are using is capable of that test..... um, well, do you know how to perform a leak down test? A regular compression gauge will not do one, so just how exactly did you perform that test?? Takes a leak down test kit to do one, and it should have two gauges on it. So.... skeptical about both your compression test and the leak down test.

Alright... so does this engine have compression? If so, how much? What all did you take off of it? You say you had all the bolt on part off of it? Head? Did you remove the head?

Until we know if what you did to repair the broken ACR, kind of hard to say what the problem is. It has fuel, it has spark. I feel confident it's getting air...... should run.
__________________
Jonathan

Thank you for your help once again Jon. I have a poor memory but your in-depth look at my problem sparked my memory. I had forgotten that I had the valves out and reseated the exhaust valve. Also had the intake valve out to clean. Had a real problem getting the valve keepers back on. Adjusted the valves as per the manual. Now to your questions.
1. Fuel is good. Not much fuel on plug but I put new spark plug in and still not starting.
2. Timing not set correctly. I set timing and checked it twice. I turned engine by hand and when test light flickered, I verified that "s" line was aligned with line on housing.
3. Broken tab and acr. I pulled the engine because I felt the acr tab was bent down and not working. After removing the oil pan the tab was indeed bent down. I tried to bend tab for 2nd time and it broke off the acr. I retrieved tab from engine thus leaving the acr not functioning.
4. Engine cranking and compression. The engine will crank if I turn the front pully so that it is back from the compression stroke. This gives it a little time to crank before building compression and once it rolls past the first compression stroke, it cranks almost as fast as it usually did before this problem. I have an older compression gauge, but I feel that it is working properly and the compression reading was 98 psi after 3 cranking rotations. The acr is not working due to the broken pin. No I probably don't know how to do a leak down test and I stated in my first post that I didn't know if you could do a leak down test with this compression tester. I do know that leak down is the amount of time it takes for compression to leak by the rings and how much leakage there is.

Going to pull the head and watch the movement of both valves. As I stated, Had a real hard time getting the valve keepers on the valves. Thank you and all the others for helping me. I would be lost with out this forum. Have a great day.
Bob

[jbrewer]

Good information Bob.

If the engine is hard to crank, then it's probably got enough compression to run. The leak down test is interesting , but even a wheezy engine should start and run , even if down on power and smoking like a chimney.

Your idea of watching the valve train is a good one, particularly while watching the timing mark and the action of the points while rotating it by hand.

Pulling the head doesn't take long and will eliminate a lot of guessing. Your patience and methodical work is really good.

[Mr Bob]

Up Date!!! Started checking things again. Pulled the head and valves seem to be working ok. Put head back on and pulled on wire from points to coil. Wire moved a little at the hold down screw. Removed points and tightened wire. Installed points. Took another compression check and got a reading of 98lbs. psi. Put old spark plug back in engine (champion H12) that was in engine when I bought tractor. As I cranked the engine, I moved throttle from idle to full throttle. Engine didn't hit a lick. Then as I moved the ign. key from start to run, the tractor started. Opened garage door and rear window and let tractor warm up. Then adjusted high speed and low speed on carb. I have to turn engine just past compression so it will crank over. This is hard to do with spark plug in head. I have found that engine will not start while holding key in start position. It starts if you slowly let key back to run position. It will not start every time . It has a new intek ign. switch. Either I have the switch wired wrong or switch is bad? Thanks for helping and have a great day.
Bob

[Dart1917]

You had spark while cranking with the spark plug out and grounded to the head so I don't think there's a problem with the switch. Check voltage at the positive coil terminal while cranking. I'm thinking without the ACR working it's drawing down the voltage and you get a weak spark or no spark. When you let off the starter the voltage comes back up enough to fire as the engine rolls through.

[Gompers]

Originally Posted by Dart1917

You had spark while cranking with the spark plug out and grounded to the head so I don't think there's a problem with the switch. Check voltage at the positive coil terminal while cranking. I'm thinking without the ACR working it's drawing down the voltage and you get a weak spark or no spark. When you let off the starter the voltage comes back up enough to fire as the engine rolls through.

I haven't had one apart, but is it possible that the keyswitch isn't keeping the contacts for the ignition circuit closed when it's in the "start" position?

[Dart1917]

Originally Posted by Gompers

I haven't had one apart, but is it possible that the keyswitch isn't keeping the contacts for the ignition circuit closed when it's in the "start" position?

It could, but earlier he had the plug out and cranked the engine and had spark. It could still be an intermittent open in the switch but I think it would be unlikely.

[Sam Mac]

Just a stupid question did you buy a Cub Cadet ignition switch? Cub part # is IH-60736-C1 or did you get one that some parts kid matched up for you?
Edit: Cub OEM switch. http://www.cubcadet.com/webapp/wcs/s...rocessARIParts

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by Dart1917

Check voltage at the positive coil terminal while cranking. I'm thinking without the ACR working it's drawing down the voltage and you get a weak spark or no spark. When you let off the starter the voltage comes back up enough to fire as the engine rolls through.