Narrow Frame Steering Upgrade

[Rescue11]

Ok, if you want p.s. go for it!

You will NEVER find a non compensated steering set up that will work the way power steering will with a loader. You will spend as much time and who knows, maybe as much money trying to find a "cheap and good way" to simulate power steering.


You want to build a loader backhoe, awesome! I own two Case loader backhoes and earn a living with them, they are great. I don't care who says what, a manual steering set up will NOT going to hold up to the abuse of that much extra weight. Nor will it turn worth a crap.

Now, that being said, if you plan to build a PF loader backhoe, you already plan to spend a considerable amount of money. I'm going to take a shot in the dark an say it will be powered by hydraulics...

You will need a pump and tank to run the loader backhoe, so all you need after that for power steering is a cylinder, column and some hoses.

Obviously you will have to build some small brackets bla bla bla, but you can find a cylinder for 60.00, a column for 200 at most (what I paid on ebay because I was too impatient to look for one cheaper), a few hydraulic hoses and an in line ball joint for an amount that won't break the bank.

I'm sorry to rant, but this seems like ordering a brand new Cadilac with hand crank windows.

[CadenceWildBeast]

Originally Posted by Rescue11

Ok, if you want p.s. go for it!

You will NEVER find a non compensated steering set up that will work the way power steering will with a loader. You will spend as much time and who knows, maybe as much money trying to find a "cheap and good way" to simulate power steering.


You want to build a loader backhoe, awesome! I own two Case loader backhoes and earn a living with them, they are great. I don't care who says what, a manual steering set up will NOT going to hold up to the abuse of that much extra weight. Nor will it turn worth a crap.

Now, that being said, if you plan to build a PF loader backhoe, you already plan to spend a considerable amount of money. I'm going to take a shot in the dark an say it will be powered by hydraulics...

You will need a pump and tank to run the loader backhoe, so all you need after that for power steering is a cylinder, column and some hoses.

Obviously you will have to build some small brackets bla bla bla, but you can find a cylinder for 60.00, a column for 200 at most (what I paid on ebay because I was too impatient to look for one cheaper), a few hydraulic hoses and an in line ball joint for an amount that won't break the bank.

I'm sorry to rant, but this seems like ordering a brand new Cadilac with hand crank windows.

Hey man crank windows work with a dead battery though lmao.
I see your point and some of the reasons that i was thinking of going with something other than hydro steering:
1. I like to do things different that what most do.
2. This project is going to take me a very long time to build because i don't have the money to be dropping all at once. Part here part there and stuff like that.
3. I don't know a hole lot about hydro. I know the basic principals of the systems, but by no means a hydro wizard.

So with No 2 and 3 considered I thought i would take to the forums and see what ppl though of my idea because crazy me I thought that's what we are all here for??? Seems that the general vote is to go hydro.

Now in my mind i am thinking that if I am going to do HPS (Hydraulic Power Steering) then having it powered off of a ported hydrostat pump would be the way to go since that is on if the tractor is running. If i choose to power the loader pump off of the PTO then that wont be on all the time.

[CadenceWildBeast]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Yes, there is a really easy way to tell them apart. On a 2 turn steering box it takes 2 turns of the steering wheel from full left to full right. On a 3 turn steering box it is 3 turns of the wheel from full left to full right. ..........

Really you don't say?? I kinda figured that part was a given. I should have been more specific. If i was look on lets say eBay for one and couldn't see how many turns there are Is there a visual physical difference that make it to where you can them one from the other??

[bschmittling]

Originally Posted by CadenceWildBeast

Really you don't say?? I kinda figured that part was a given. I should have been more specific. If i was look on lets say eBay for one and couldn't see how many turns there are Is there a visual physical difference that make it to where you can them one from the other??

They look the same. The difference is the worm gear. I bought a rebuilt three turn off ebay. It is for sure the closest you are going to get to power steering with a manual. The seller clearly stated it was a three turn. Other than that, you can't tell by looking at it.

[CadenceWildBeast]

Originally Posted by bschmittling

They look the same. The difference is the worm gear. I bought a rebuilt three turn off ebay. It is for sure the closest you are going to get to power steering with a manual. The seller clearly stated it was a three turn. Other than that, you can't tell by looking at it.

Thank you for the explaining that. For the people that know that there is a difference then they will say but if you got someone that doesn't then they are going to just list it and if they all look the same you are at fates mercy.

[mickb72]

Hey those 3 turn steering units are the cat's meow. Even thow i sold my tractor that had one, darn. Mike

[CadenceWildBeast]

Well guys summer is back and trying to get more work done on the hydraulic steering. So I finely got my rims blasted and repainted and tires mounted so that i can start mocking up my cylinder placement. I didn't have a lot of time yesterday to get the toe in set perfectly but as of right now i am liking the idea of placing the ram about in this location. It seems to give me the best range of motion both left to right and up and down on the axle pivot.

Now of course the problem is that the break peddle swings right through that area so naturally 2 things cant occupy the same space so im left with notch the break peddle to accommodate the cylinder, or move it underneath the foot rest.

Here is my idea for modding the break arm. Just add a Jog in it that would allow it to swing past the cylinder mount.

Though ideas??

[ol'George]

First off, tape the inlet/outlet of your cylinder to keep critters/dirt out.
The cyl works better hanging just under the frame or near the bottom, clearing the pedal.
I upgraded to a John deere power system on a 1650 cub
using a column from seems like a 316 Deere.
you can use your ram, I put a super steer axle under it, seems like it was from a 1400 something cub, maybe 1440??
it can be done easily if you are handy.
Just some encouragement for you.

[CadenceWildBeast]

Originally Posted by ol'George

First off, tape the inlet/outlet of your cylinder to keep critters/dirt out.
The cyl works better hanging just under the frame or near the bottom, clearing the pedal.
I upgraded to a John deere power system on a 1650 cub
using a column from seems like a 316 Deere.
you can use your ram, I put a super steer axle under it, seems like it was from a 1400 something cub, maybe 1440??
it can be done easily if you are handy.
Just some encouragement for you.

Thanks for the input. the ports do have clear plugs in them, but I did take them out when testing range of motion (made cylinder travel much easier). I will look more at under in next. just though a simple hole up there would be easy and seemed to get me the travel that i was looking for. I am using all front components form a wide frame that i have added gussets to for strength since this is going on a loader, but trying to save money and use what i have.

[Yosemite Sam]

Upgrading the steering on a Cub to make it more durable is a wonderful, ambitious project.

From the research I've done on the subject I have discovered that each individual component that is modified, moves the weak spot to a different place.

It is my opinion that if you can build heavy duty spindles/knuckles and if you can get a factory cast iron axle to hold up to the weight and stress that is needed for a FEL the next weak spot that needs to be addressed is the saddle that the axle fits into.

You can "beef up" the saddle and how it mounts to the frame easy enough with doubler plates and gussets. No matter what you do, the pivot pin going through the axle is going to be questionable at best.

But now you want to add a hydraulic cylinder that (for all intensive purposes) pushes (from the side of the frame) one end of the axle forward and then pulls it back again. I can see no benefit in adding all that extra stress to the axle, the pin, the pins mounting holes and the saddle. A cylinder mounted in this configuration is virtually trying to push/pull the axle in a direction that it was never intended to move.

It seems to me that this hydraulic cylinder would serve its purpose much better if one end was attached to an arm on the knuckle and the other end was attached right back to the axle. Mounting it this way would eliminate all of that added stress to the saddle, axle, the pin and the frame.