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View Poll Results: What should I do about seals with the M18?
Inspect and replace if necessary 4 10.81%
Replace while the engine is out and they are accessible 11 29.73%
Just replace the flywheel one since it’s hardest to get at 2 5.41%
Leave them alone if they aren’t obviously leaking 11 29.73%
Bin the M18 and do a Hemi swap instead 9 24.32%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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  #91  
Old 02-18-2018, 06:02 PM
Gompers Gompers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ol'George View Post
How bad are the rod journals and main journals?
next in line is the cylinder bores?
I'll go take some more photos in a minute, main journals look pretty good. Haven't gotten the rods off just yet.

This thing has definitely let go in the past. There's a chunk or two missing in a few different places in the crankcases, and a little bit missing on the #1 jug skirt.
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  #92  
Old 02-18-2018, 07:18 PM
Gompers Gompers is offline
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Haven't measured anything yet.


PTO Side main journal looks to be in good shape.


Flywheel side journal looks good too




#1 definitely has some issues. Crank has just a touch of aluminum on it, but the rod has some pretty decent gouges on it's surface.



#2 looks really good. There was still a film of oil when I pulled off the rod.


Off I go to do some measuring.
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  #93  
Old 02-18-2018, 07:46 PM
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ol'George ol'George is offline
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Looks like one rod needs replaced @ minimum, be sure to check the crank with a mic,paying attention to taper and out of round.
They are a hardened crank,so they usually fare well and aluminum usually comes off.
Just guessing, but the plastic pump gear could of been hurt during the previous internal problems and overlooked, or a chunk of debris caught in the gerotor jamming it and the plastic gear was the weakest link.
A meticulous cleaning is imperative, paying attention to suction line & block passages.
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  #94  
Old 02-18-2018, 08:51 PM
Gompers Gompers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ol'George View Post
Looks like one rod needs replaced @ minimum, be sure to check the crank with a mic,paying attention to taper and out of round.
They are a hardened crank,so they usually fare well and aluminum usually comes off.
Just guessing, but the plastic pump gear could of been hurt during the previous internal problems and overlooked, or a chunk of debris caught in the gerotor jamming it and the plastic gear was the weakest link.
A meticulous cleaning is imperative, paying attention to suction line & block passages.
Mic'd crank, bores and pistons. Crank has already been ground .010 under and the cylinders are both bored .020 over. Pistons don't look the best. Good news is that everything is just within wear limits (.001 is my max taper and .0005 is my max out of round on the crank) Bad news is that there's no turning the crank down any more, so I'm just going to have to clean it up (or get it cleaned up) and go with it. I'd probably replace the pistons too, but don't know if I can get aftermarket .020 pistons, and I don't know how I feel about dropping 250 bucks for a set of OEM ones. The ones in there are in better shape than the KT17 ones I have, though.

My guess is that when things went badly it cracked the gear or messed up a tooth on it just enough to cause problems over time until it eventually decided to fly apart.

Spent a good part of the afternoon scrubbing and scraping and picking and wiping at the crank halves. None of the passages look to be plugged, but I'll be extra careful of them. I did notice the one that goes to the rear main bearing had a little bit of original sealant in it (probably from factory - it was black vs. the orange stuff that was in there after the last rebuild), but picked that out, and don't think it was a problem.
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  #95  
Old 02-18-2018, 09:28 PM
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ol'George ol'George is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gompers View Post
Mic'd crank, bores and pistons. Crank has already been ground .010 under and the cylinders are both bored .020 over. Pistons don't look the best. Good news is that everything is just within wear limits (.001 is my max taper and .0005 is my max out of round on the crank) Bad news is that there's no turning the crank down any more, so I'm just going to have to clean it up (or get it cleaned up) and go with it. I'd probably replace the pistons too, but don't know if I can get aftermarket .020 pistons, and I don't know how I feel about dropping 250 bucks for a set of OEM ones. The ones in there are in better shape than the KT17 ones I have, though.

My guess is that when things went badly it cracked the gear or messed up a tooth on it just enough to cause problems over time until it eventually decided to fly apart.

Spent a good part of the afternoon scrubbing and scraping and picking and wiping at the crank halves. None of the passages look to be plugged, but I'll be extra careful of them. I did notice the one that goes to the rear main bearing had a little bit of original sealant in it (probably from factory - it was black vs. the orange stuff that was in there after the last rebuild), but picked that out, and don't think it was a problem.
Make sure you blow/clean the bored passage from the copper tube from the suction screen to the pump cavity.
do follow the assembly manual on putting sealant around the case through- bolts and less is better than more, during assy.
fine emery should clean up the crank.
just use your head/experience.
You want to remove just the Alu. build up.
post some pix of the pistons.
The black sealant residue was prolly in the drain back hole for the flywheel end seal.
If excessive sealant plugs that slot, it will cause the seal to blow out.
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  #96  
Old 02-22-2018, 04:50 PM
Cadet Guy Cadet Guy is offline
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If you decide to go through the engine, don't overlook taking the rear cover off of the differential housing and take a look. I went through a 1650 last summer that was a barn find. I have no idea how long it had set, but when I took the rear cover off to change the hydraulic oil, the hydraulic oil came out like lumpy Jello. Two cans of brake clean, fresh fluid and hydro filter later, and it was ready to go. Hy-Tran is designed to only absorb ~5 % water by volume. The longer it sets (without being changed), the more potential there is for this to occur. Obviously had I not done this prior to starting the tractor, hydro damage would have occurred next.

I have a photo of the moment I took the rear cover off on my phone just to remind me why changing Hy-Tran regularly is important.....
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  #97  
Old 02-22-2018, 04:58 PM
Cadet Guy Cadet Guy is offline
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If you decide to go through the engine, don't overlook taking the rear cover off of the differential housing and take a look. I went through a 1650 last summer that was a barn find. I have no idea how long it had set, but when I took the rear cover off to change the hydraulic oil, the hydraulic oil came out like lumpy Jello. Two cans of brake clean, fresh fluid and hydro filter later, and it was ready to go. Hy-Tran is designed to only absorb ~5 % water by volume. The longer it sets (without being changed), the more potential there is for this to occur. Obviously had I not done this prior to starting the tractor, hydro damage would have occurred next.

I have a photo of the moment I took the rear cover off on my phone just to remind me why changing Hy-Tran regularly is important.....
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File Type: jpg 1650 #2 rear cover and diff.jpg (27.0 KB, 138 views)
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  #98  
Old 02-22-2018, 09:42 PM
Gompers Gompers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadet Guy View Post
If you decide to go through the engine, don't overlook taking the rear cover off of the differential housing and take a look. I went through a 1650 last summer that was a barn find. I have no idea how long it had set, but when I took the rear cover off to change the hydraulic oil, the hydraulic oil came out like lumpy Jello. Two cans of brake clean, fresh fluid and hydro filter later, and it was ready to go. Hy-Tran is designed to only absorb ~5 % water by volume. The longer it sets (without being changed), the more potential there is for this to occur. Obviously had I not done this prior to starting the tractor, hydro damage would have occurred next.

I have a photo of the moment I took the rear cover off on my phone just to remind me why changing Hy-Tran regularly is important.....
Nasty! Thanks for the heads up!

I'll definitely go through the trans once I get a heart back in this thing. I'm sure it's ugly in there. Have some hytran and a new filter waiting to go on it when I get to that point. Probably also needs some trunion work.

Been cleaning up the crankcase halves and doing some more inspecting. One piston is definitely going to have to be replaced, and .020 rings cost half as much as a whole piston/ring set, so I just sucked it up and bought 2 NOS .020 pistons.

Ugh parts for these things suck.
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  #99  
Old 02-27-2018, 06:30 PM
Gompers Gompers is offline
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Spent a lot of time cleaning parts this weekend. Got crankcase halves cleaned, jugs torn down and cleaned. Margins were pretty much gone on 3 of the 4 valves so I ordered a whole set of new ones (ouch). Cleaned up the closing plate, and as much hardware as I could get through.

Also got the aluminum cleaned off the rod journal that spun.
Started off with this:


After the lye had done it's best I ended up with this:


A little bit of 400 grit wet/dry and WD40 sanding and it looks like this:


I really don't like those scratches in there.

Mic'd it and it's 1.3631->1.3618 from the left of the photo to the right with ~.0002 out of round. Specs say max wear is 1.3728, taper .001 and OOR .0005. So it's .001 out of spec. Irritating. And to get the scratches out means even more material gone. Since it's already ground, that's sort of a nonstarter unless I want to use bearing inserts and bore out a rod.

Decided to just pick up a good used crank from an auction site. Cheap insurance. Already have ~400 bucks in good new parts going into this thing, I'd prefer not to risk tossing a rod out the side of the crankcase. I'll take a look at it when it comes and see if I need to have it ground or not.

Off to do more parts cleaning and scrubbing!
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  #100  
Old 02-28-2018, 02:47 PM
Joe_K Joe_K is offline
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Thanks for documenting this with pictures. I've had many V8's apart but never a small engine.
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